Scully Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Nephew phoned last night to tell me the FEO had just left his house after his visit regarding first time FAC application. He applied for .22rf and .243 for pest /vermin control and fox/deer. His FEO told him he should receive his tickets in a couple of weeks and said that because of his attendance of many Young Shots days and many years of experience out with me, and the fact he seemed very knowledgeable regarding rifle shooting, he didn't feel there was a need for mentoring. I've told him not to get too excited as the final decision will lie with the Chief Officer, but was heartened by the application of a bit of common sense by an FEO who actually knows what he's talking about and has actual experience of shooting. It doesn't bode well for any of us when FEO's simply apply law without any experience of the realities of shooting; a bit like employing MP's who have no experience of work. Edited August 29, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Nephew phoned last night to tell me the FEO had just left his house after his visit regarding first time FAC application. He applied for .22rf and .243 for pest /vermin control and fox/deer. His FEO told him he should receive his tickets in a couple of weeks and said that because of his attendance of many Young Shots days and many years of experience out with me, and the fact he seemed very knowledgeable regarding rifle shooting, he didn't feel there was a need for mentoring. I've told him not to get too excited as the final decision will lie with the Chief Officer, but was heartened by the application of a bit of common sense by an FEO who actually knows what he's talking about and has actual experience of shooting. It doesn't bode well for any of us when FEO's simply apply law without any experience of the realities of shooting; a bit like employing MP's who have no experience of work. Like Seb Coe, all he's ever done is run around in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Like Seb Coe, all he's ever done is run around in circles. That's a fact I hadn't considered. No doubt Lord Coe now deals with matters of much more importance than working for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I don't think Mandy at staffs is a shooter but she's brilliant and Very knowledgeable . I'm glad she's my Feo as she speaks sense. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is really needed is someone with common sense and a proper knowledge of the law - being able to differentiate between the actual Firearms Act and Home Office guidelines, which many seem to think are the actual law. The staff at the GMP Firearms Licensing Unit at Openshaw Complex have an impressive knowledge of firearms procedures. They have common sense by the bucket load and are very reasonable. We are fortunate. FEO for Greater Manchester is a shooter and a pretty decent one. That is a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I don't think Mandy at staffs is a shooter but she's brilliant and Very knowledgeable . I'm glad she's my Feo as she speaks sense. . I hope she is or she wouldn't be shooting!!! And she's happy to seek advice from people in the trade as well. Edited August 30, 2015 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 I am not so sure it matters as long as they don't talk rubbish. You know like 22-250 is too dangerous for a location or user but 223 is OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 They really need to be non shooting, simply because of the conflict of interests and licensing needing to be seen to be very separate to the shooting community. However they do need to know what they are talking about which is where their training comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 What is really needed is someone with common sense and a proper knowledge of the law - being able to differentiate between the actual Firearms Act and Home Office guidelines, which many seem to think are the actual law. The staff at the GMP Firearms Licensing Unit at Openshaw Complex have an impressive knowledge of firearms procedures. They have common sense by the bucket load and are very reasonable. We are fortunate. FEO for Greater Manchester is a shooter and a pretty decent one. That is a bonus. they used to be, i think you will find its very different now mate...im now up to 5 months for a variation!!! and they dont answer the phone anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Archie - I agree about the phone. Tried to phone last week - all attempts are directed to their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 It doesn't bode well for any of us when FEO's simply apply law without any experience of the realities of shooting Members under Durham will have experience of this, one created a massive backlog, removed calibers off certs, he was a wildlife officer. Another was a shooter, but interpreted the law the way he seen fit, & the last one was a veggie, so yes, FEO's in my opinion should be shooters. Not all bad though, just had my FAC renewed, & the FEO that came out was a breath of fresh air, he is a shooter, has common sensem & is a bloke you can talk to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foosa Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 Many years ago I put in for a variation to acquire a .22 hornet to add to the .22 rf long rifle I already had, the feo came round and said I couldn't have a hornet as I already had one .22 calibre rifle! Whilst trying my hardest not to fall about laughing I had to explain the difference to this chap between a rim fire and centre fire cartridge, even then as the conversation ended he finished by saying "well I still don't think you'll be granted another .22 rifle as you already have one!" Not a suitable person for the job IMHO and couldn't believe what I was hearing, thought it was a wind up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuddster Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 the question of impartiality would raise its head should a syndicate member also be your feo. especially in a post incident investigation. I know three feo's who are avid game and clay shooters and I have absolute trust in their judgement regarding certificate matters.Likewise, I know a feo who's never shot and I cannot fault his judgement. f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 the question of impartiality would raise its head should a syndicate member also be your feo. especially in a post incident investigation. I know three feo's who are avid game and clay shooters and I have absolute trust in their judgement regarding certificate matters.Likewise, I know a feo who's never shot and I cannot fault his judgement. f. That's a good point. Our FEO is a member of a local syndicate. I'm assuming he deals with people he knows well, but can't say for certain. Perhaps he instructs another FEO to deal with his syndicate members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carman06 Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Many years ago I put in for a variation to acquire a .22 hornet to add to the .22 rf long rifle I already had, the feo came round and said I couldn't have a hornet as I already had one .22 calibre rifle! Whilst trying my hardest not to fall about laughing I had to explain the difference to this chap between a rim fire and centre fire cartridge, even then as the conversation ended he finished by saying "well I still don't think you'll be granted another .22 rifle as you already have one!" Not a suitable person for the job IMHO and couldn't believe what I was hearing, thought it was a wind up.That's hilarious. I have 4 x .22rf on my first cert. as long as you can show genuine reason that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Many years ago I put in for a variation to acquire a .22 hornet to add to the .22 rf long rifle I already had, the feo came round and said I couldn't have a hornet as I already had one .22 calibre rifle! Whilst trying my hardest not to fall about laughing I had to explain the difference to this chap between a rim fire and centre fire cartridge, even then as the conversation ended he finished by saying "well I still don't think you'll be granted another .22 rifle as you already have one!" Not a suitable person for the job IMHO and couldn't believe what I was hearing, thought it was a wind up. This sort of knowledge / training issue is the only point against non shooters. That said I had an old feo who was a shooter and collector of military guns of the past trying to get me to agree with his thoughts on 223 v 22-250 he seriously thought one was safer than the other. When armed response did it I think it was about the best. That said after many years I see light at the tunnel end due to funding cuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) This whole issue of one calibre "being more dangerous than another" seems rather contentious and not at all consistently met for applications from what is commonly reported. Perhaps it needs addressing within HO guidelines and included within training. There is no such thing as one calibre more dangerous or lethal; they're all potentially lethal. Given a safe shot against a backstop, there is nothing to choose between a 0.5 BMG or a .22LR. What matters is that one has good reason for owning a specific rifle and that it is safely handled, and that shots are well considered including the use of effective backstops. Edited August 31, 2015 by Savhmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 There is some at the extremities. But within say rabbit rifles, Fox rifles, deer rifles as groups it's limited Not like I think it's wrong for the cops to refuse a 300 win mag for lamping foxes in Norfolk or a 416 for stalking roe in Sitka plantations etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmullen Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Definitely. At least if they're not shooters, they should be polished up as an FEO instead of the on the beat bobbies we have. My mate got his renewal visit the other week, and the first thing he asked was 'so, how long you been doing this? The bobbies reply was 'this is my first time'... And they're in charge of deciding if the cabinet and the suitability of the home is good enough?? Ridiculous. Paid off our old FEO who my father and said mate knew extremely well, in fact he would shoot with with them in the 80s, to instead send a bobby round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) My mate got his renewal visit the other week, and the first thing he asked was 'so, how long you been doing this? The bobbies reply was 'this is my first time'... And they're in charge of deciding if the cabinet and the suitability of the home is good enough?? Ridiculous.. How on earth is anybody ever going to do anything in life if they don't do it for the first time, every feo's career has had to start with a first visit. Edited September 6, 2015 by toontastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmullen Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 How on earth is anybody ever going to do anything in life if they don't do it for the first time, every feo's career has had to start with a first visit. There are no dedicated FEO's in my area now. It's always a on the beat bobby.. That's why I said they should be FEO's instead of bobbies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 How on earth is anybody ever going to do anything in life if they don't do it for the first time, every feo's career has had to start with a first visit. +1.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 How on earth is anybody ever going to do anything in life if they don't do it for the first time, every feo's career has had to start with a first visit. No, I can't agree, if I got my first job wrong I'd be struck off, these decisions rely on proper training, competency and assessment before these people start getting things wrong. All this does is compound the apathy of some forces, it's a dreadful situation. How many jobs can you get away with misinformation and incompetency on a level we obviously see? It's not the individuals fault, not is it the FAC holder to be fed the tripe we often hear about. It's a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 No, I can't agree, if I got my first job wrong I'd be struck off, these decisions rely on proper training, competency and assessment before these people start getting things wrong. All this does is compound the apathy of some forces, it's a dreadful situation. How many jobs can you get away with misinformation and incompetency on a level we obviously see? It's not the individuals fault, not is it the FAC holder to be fed the tripe we often hear about. It's a mess Nothing was said about things being done wrong, the problem was getting a visit from someone who hadn't done one before. Every person who carries out home visits has to have a first visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmullen Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Nothing was said about things being done wrong, the problem was getting a visit from someone who hadn't done one before. Every person who carries out home visits has to have a first visit. Not sure you're understanding what I'm saying. The guy who done the visit isn't an FEO. He is just a normal police man. There are no more dedicated FEOs so they are using untrained policemen in their place. Untrained as in, not specifically trained in the firearms act etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.