Are we truly represented by our organisations

[Desiato]

By investing in our regional structure we hope to have much more fact to face contact with our membership. I am not saying for one moment that the use of digital media is not warranted, on the contrary, BASC will be using digital comms more and more, but at the end of the day we are members organisation, run by members for members, so it makes sense to us to try as much as possible to interact with members face to face.

 

David

David that is great to hear , as a member of both BASC and the CA , I am watching the CA remove all its regional connectivity in the belief that it can work best through digital means , this I believe to be incredibly short sited and will result in a significant loss of membership , as you state Face to Face with members is still hugely important.

[Gordon R]

mudpatten - I am with you.

 

Desiato - some proper examples would assist your argument, rather than the sweeping statements of which you are so fond. That is not sniping - merely an attempt to understand how you jump to conclusions with little to support them.

 

Feel free to ignore or perhaps hit back with some of your devastating wit.

[Duckandswing]

Life is really too short for arguments on a forum. Do you not think?

 

Makes very little sense to me.

[demonwolf444]

BASC are very good but can only represent the members who are paid up; such is the nature of a membership organization; on the flip side any organization they does not operate with the input, help ( financial or otherwise ) of its members and supporters really does not represent anyone at all. As a BASC member my experience has been an absolutely positive one, as keen to work with me as i have been to work with them, and some excellent people work within that organization and i have been fortunate enough to meet some of them.

 

The problem is many sportsmen are still apathetic, if there is a key issue on which BASC needs input from its members, the organization has roughly 130,000 members i believe? and yet we are fortunate on any petition or issue to have responses from more than 20,000 these days, while is a significant improvement on the past that still suggests that there are tens of thousands BASC members who are completely apathetic to any of the many issues facing shooting today, and hundreds of thousands of SGC and FAC holders and associated stake holders not getting involved in the debate.

 

The fact is simply signing up to an organization offers you very little in terms of representation unless you give that organization your help and efforts when required, and apathy is something we are all guilty of because lets face it we want to spend out time enjoying our sport not messing around.

 

This is the reason i became involved in firearms UK association ( formed march 2014 ), its a completely volunteer non profit organization through which a group of us work on various things trying to promote unity and positive action within the shooting community. In the scheme of things are achievements are small but it makes me feel like I'm doing my bit and that's why I'm involved in a small way.

[norfolk dumpling]

I'm BASC but not out of choice - syndicate rules dictate this. I've not had to call upon their services but one or two things have left me rather disillusioned: John Swift/LAG debacle has without doubt weakened our representation and for me, the way the East has been rolled into Central. This latter aspect is very disappointing for what must be the most active shooting area in the country. However with what is happening politically we may only have a few years shooting left. If Corbyn/Sturgeon continue their advance we can all hand in our guns and retire.

[subsonicnat]

I'm BASC but not out of choice - syndicate rules dictate this. I've not had to call upon their services but one or two things have left me rather disillusioned: John Swift/LAG debacle has without doubt weakened our representation and for me, the way the East has been rolled into Central. This latter aspect is very disappointing for what must be the most active shooting area in the country. However with what is happening politically we may only have a few years shooting left. If Corbyn/Sturgeon continue their advance we can all hand in our guns and retire.

+1

[poontang]

 

 

This is the reason i became involved in firearms UK association ( formed march 2014 ), its a completely volunteer non profit organization through which a group of us work on various things trying to promote unity and positive action within the shooting community. In the scheme of things are achievements are small but it makes me feel like I'm doing my bit and that's why I'm involved in a small way.

 

Why are Firearms UK so concerned with US gun culture?

 

I used to be quite supportive when the group first started, but it's all gone a bit '2nd Amendment' and waltish now.

 

Shame really.

Edited October 2, 2015 by poontang

[southwest_colonel]

I'm a member of BASC and feel that, together with the GWCT, they form a solid basis for fighting our corners. BASC offer some excellent services and an increasingly sane/unified voice (regardless of any historical problems), whilst the GWCT's excellent scientific work is absolutely vital to putting forward a positive vision of our sports and countering the often baseless assertions of those opposed to them.

 

Previously been a CA member but felt out of place as I have no interest in fox hunting

 

Whilst I remain a member of the CA, I too sometimes feel that I'm a member of some sort of Hunt Protection Trust. I'm not wholly averse to their cause, but as someone who has never been involved in a hunt, save for one occasion I was dragged along to a very boozy party in a tent, it does often feel that shooting takes a bit of a back-seat.

[Desiato]

mudpatten - I am with you.Desiato - some proper examples would assist your argument, rather than the sweeping statements of which you are so fond. That is not sniping - merely an attempt to understand how you jump to conclusions with little to support them.Feel free to ignore or perhaps hit back with some of your devastating wit.

Your puerile comments are becoming really quite tedious , if you are unable to put your thoughts and or feelings across without resorting to personal snipes at me , then you might consider doing all of us a favour and leave this forum to adults !

[Gordon R]

Desiato - I assume from your poor grasp of the English language that you are still at school.

 

I had let the matter go, but you chose to continue. That says it all.

[grrclark]

The shooting organisations are no different from any other body in that they will broadly represent the needs/wants of the majority, but they will never fulfil the need/want of every individual. It is all compromise about doing as much as they can for as many as they can.

 

I think that we also, probably naively, wish that they had greater power to influence government and public opinion, but we shooters are a minority and that means that we will always play second fiddle to the wants and whims of the majority. Right or wrong, fair or just, makes not a jot of difference we simply don't have the influence that we would like.

 

The likes of BASC also have to tread a fine line in their lobbying efforts, credibility is based on perception and BASC must be perceived to be credible and responsible and recognise that they are the voice of a minority otherwise they will be shut out of any conversation. If they push too much in the wrong place then they can do more damage to their long term ability to influence. They have to take a more strategic view rather than a tactical one.

 

That of course does not mean they get it right all the time.

 

In comparison people like the RSPB, WWT, etc can be much more polarised and pointed in their outlook and they can behave very tactically. They don't really have anything to lose as nobody is just waiting on an excuse to legislate against birds or folk that like birds, that holds no political capital, but there are plenty who would be happy to screw the nut on shooting as there is political capital to be gained.

 

Like it or not the lot of the shooting community is one of compromise, it shouldn't be that way, but it is. It is easy to be a very vocal, but very ineffective opposition, principle is important and should be fought for, but not every principle is equal. Mr Corbyn is the very epitome of principled and vocal opposition, but i rather suspect he will achieve diddly squat, if BASC took the hard nosed line I also suspect they would fair similarly.

 

On balance I think BASC do a fair job in difficult circumstance, for sure they have dropped the ball on occasion and John Swift is a dropped ball in every respect. Sadly like all pseudo political organisations they are also a target for people who just want to be involved in that type of environment and so there will be politically motivated people who put themselves forward for council who are perhaps more self serving than interested in serving the wider community, but every club or organisation with elected members is like this.

 

I am also a member of the GWCT and they do have a good reputation and credibility on their scientific approach, but that means they perhaps stand back from the political bunfight a little bit.

 

I don't know enough about the others, but trying to get myself more aware although I think the clay target organisations could and should do more.

[Desiato]

Desiato - I assume from your poor grasp of the English language that you are still at school.

 

I had let the matter go, but you chose to continue. That says it all.

Is there any possibility that during the course of this debate , you might actually deem to give us the benefit of your own thoughts on this topic.

Or will you just continue to criticise those who do ?

 

The answer I believe I can already guess , but feel free to surprise me !

[Savhmr]

The shooting organisations are no different from any other body in that they will broadly represent the needs/wants of the majority, but they will never fulfil the need/want of every individual. It is all compromise about doing as much as they can for as many as they can.

 

I think that we also, probably naively, wish that they had greater power to influence government and public opinion, but we shooters are a minority and that means that we will always play second fiddle to the wants and whims of the majority. Right or wrong, fair or just, makes not a jot of difference we simply don't have the influence that we would like.

 

The likes of BASC also have to tread a fine line in their lobbying efforts, credibility is based on perception and BASC must be perceived to be credible and responsible and recognise that they are the voice of a minority otherwise they will be shut out of any conversation. If they push too much in the wrong place then they can do more damage to their long term ability to influence. They have to take a more strategic view rather than a tactical one.

 

That of course does not mean they get it right all the time.

 

In comparison people like the RSPB, WWT, etc can be much more polarised and pointed in their outlook and they can behave very tactically. They don't really have anything to lose as nobody is just waiting on an excuse to legislate against birds or folk that like birds, that holds no political capital, but there are plenty who would be happy to screw the nut on shooting as there is political capital to be gained.

 

Like it or not the lot of the shooting community is one of compromise, it shouldn't be that way, but it is. It is easy to be a very vocal, but very ineffective opposition, principle is important and should be fought for, but not every principle is equal. Mr Corbyn is the very epitome of principled and vocal opposition, but i rather suspect he will achieve diddly squat, if BASC took the hard nosed line I also suspect they would fair similarly.

 

On balance I think BASC do a fair job in difficult circumstance, for sure they have dropped the ball on occasion and John Swift is a dropped ball in every respect. Sadly like all pseudo political organisations they are also a target for people who just want to be involved in that type of environment and so there will be politically motivated people who put themselves forward for council who are perhaps more self serving than interested in serving the wider community, but every club or organisation with elected members is like this.

 

I am also a member of the GWCT and they do have a good reputation and credibility on their scientific approach, but that means they perhaps stand back from the political bunfight a little bit.

 

I don't know enough about the others, but trying to get myself more aware although I think the clay target organisations could and should do more.

 

Good posting. RE clay target associations: it may be of little benefit to them to become more involved outside of their sporting arena although their members must obviously span a wider field of interest. Shooting organisations as a whole move at different paces and don't always see eye to eye because their motivations differ, their management differs and their membership direction differs .

 

I joined BASC because I felt that they were our best chance for the future of shooting support, but that doesn't mean that I agree with everything that they say or do. Swift leaving was long overdue and I'm surprised that he wasn't pushed long before now as it must have been obvious to those working closely with him what his motivations were. His actions were unforgivable. However, he's gone now, so maybe we can get over it and move on with so many important matters to be defended and promoted.

 

One aspect of membership of any organisation where little is said is the failings of the members themselves. The shooting community can often be its own worst enemy and many shooters just love to have a moan . Organisation members could be doing more themselves in respect of supporting their organisations and themselves as a community. That sometimes takes a more pragmatic view, but pragmatism in itself does not equal compromise in all situations, so some things will have to be hard fought. Whatever the future holds for us, only one organisation appears to be taking the lead across a wide enough range of issues, and that for me is the BASC.

[DaveyTed]

Interesting comments about clay shooting "organisations".

The only one I know of is CPSA and maybe they want to distance themselves from live quarry shooting in the hope that clay shooting continues to be acceptable regardless of any restrictions elsewhere.

Just a thought.

[webber]

Interesting comments about clay shooting "organisations".

The only one I know of is CPSA and maybe they want to distance themselves from live quarry shooting in the hope that clay shooting continues to be acceptable regardless of any restrictions elsewhere.

Just a thought.

Only a few years ago the CPSA sought to change it's name to Clay Target Shooting Association in a bid to distance it's self from game shooting.

The associations members however felt somewhat differently and the name remained unchanged.

 

webber

[grrclark]

Interesting comments about clay shooting "organisations".

The only one I know of is CPSA and maybe they want to distance themselves from live quarry shooting in the hope that clay shooting continues to be acceptable regardless of any restrictions elsewhere.

Just a thought.

All the home nations have their own organisation, I am a member of the SCTA - Scottish Clay Target Association. The name is interesting given Webber's point above.

[demonwolf444]

 

Why are Firearms UK so concerned with US gun culture?

 

I used to be quite supportive when the group first started, but it's all gone a bit '2nd Amendment' and waltish now.

 

Shame really.

 

Appologies if we are coming across waltish its not the intention - however several of the team are Ex military and hate being called waltish but i hope i can explain why we are interested in what happens in the US satisfactorily for you:

 

Firstly I have addressed your concerns to the group, we exist to represent gun owners UK wide and posts of that nature are obviously not of interest to our followers.

 

The reason the organization takes an interest in what happens in the US is because of the international nature of the press. Simply when a shooting or tradgic event happens in the US reporters report about it which in turn puts eyes on the UK shooting community, unfortunately we have seen this trend time and time again. For example we had numerous papers saying "sandy hook guns available in the UK" and we saw a lot of inaccurate press reporting on issues of British shooting and gun ownership and we were really busy reporting inaccuracies and such to the IPSO. It might be trivial but poor reporting damages the reputation of the community which is often completely misunderstood by the media. We usually get two angles, the mass murderers angle, or the game shooting toff angle, so we do follow these things with some degree of interest because it inevitably sparks debate about the situation in this country, so if we understand whats happened and when we can try and get opportunities to comment in news papers and magazines and be involved in radio debates.

 

 

At the moment the team are very busy as we all do have full time jobs and careers to also focus on as well as other life commitments. We still operate on a voluntary basis, our team does not receive any income from our activities and in addition to free time we donate the majority of the funds needed to run Firearms UK. as you can imagine this can create difficulties from time to time. We do share articles on facebook because it stimulates discussion and is relevant to the overall debate of gun ownership.

 

The team is continuing to work behind the scenes looking at new projects and areas we can expand on.

 

Currently we are:

 

- monitoring every news article and reporting any inaccuracies to the IPSO ( see our how to guide http://firearmsuk.org/.../independent-press-standards.../ )

 

- we have recently been in hunting and safari magazine about our efforts to get more people behind changing the weirdness with .22rf pistols for target shooting which is a magazine published in dubai, and we are picking up a lot of interest from that way.

 

- We are working to build relationships with the airsoft community - might seem stupid but we do exist to support all sports and hobbies that involve guns and this is obviously a part of it. The laws that affect them often affect us such as the 07? VCRA act. Its another sort of base of support and fits with our Unity Idea.

 

- Seem to be doing quite a bit of writing to MP's which is lobbying general as well as consulting for opinion on issues such as the .22rf pistol petition, and the issue of lead shot.

 

Admittedly we are a bit quiet at the moment as we have about three people in the team moving house ( i have just moved ) so attentions are else where at the moment. Its not confirmed yet but i think we will be at the northern shooting show may 2016 at the yorkshire show ground so if that's going ahead we will be planning and organizing for that which will require significant fund raising.

 

Our Official "goal" on paper when we formed the organization is the following: An Association Aiming to Protect gun ownership in the UK and encourage unity and positive action within the community. At the moment we are working within that on Unity, New shooter, projects that support and encourage the growth of a more positive and proactive community.

 

If anyone has any suggestions for improvement for the organization, or campaigns or a direction to head next of an area of the sport that's particularly misrepresented at the moment please hesitate to contact me and we will direct some attention to whatever that might be. We work best and most efficiently when we have a very clear goal or direction, the group, particularly our social media and press links is an excellent staging point for getting people thinking about a single issue but we do get a bit stagnant when nothing in particular is happening. We'd like to be amazing but at the end of the day we are just a group of guys and girls trying to do a bit of good.

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by demonwolf444

[muffin]

Demonwolf 444 I am with you Firearms UK seems to be pushing shooting not happy to trade one off to save the rest.As for the USA I like to keep up to speed with what is going on as far as possible.

[Scully]

 

We'd like to be amazing but at the end of the day we are just a group of guys and girls trying to do a bit of good.

 

 

Good for you; I wish there were more like you.

[norfolk dumpling]

Demonwolf444 - hadn't heard of you before this post and I read a huge amount of shoot related stuff.

 

I agree USA is of considerable importance to us as they are always cited as the model of what is worst about gun ownership. I have family there and it staggers and slightly disappoints me how lax their gun laws are. Talk about guns here and many listeners throw up their hands in horror yet in the States you can buy a semi-auto shotgun and ammo with your groceries and nobody bats an eye. Oh that we had some of that but not the other.