fancying a change of scenery

[ratty1]

Morning all, twice a year I head north in search of pinks, now I've had my fair share of luck so now I fancy doing something different for one of those weeks,

I've not had a great deal of luck with greylag so I'd like to change that and possibly somewhere in England. I'm thinking of using the basc permit scheme to do so, so my question is where abouts in England should I go for the best chance of getting under a grey or two?

Cheers

Ross

[Beretta28g]

The question is where are you based now and where have you been before

[ratty1]

Based down in devon, been solway,tay, Dornoch, just fancy somewhere south of the border.

[motty]

You could try the wash or maybe Lindisfarne.

[6.5x55SE]

Ross Migratory Icelandic Greylag are few and far between these days in the UK due to the Huge amount getting shot before they leave Iceland. But if you was looking to try for these NW England would be worth a try.

For Feral Greylag most of England has these now.

Also are you looking for Foreshore or Inland !!!!!!

[ratty1]

Would prefer foreshore shooting or wash/marsh. I'm quite happy just to shoot feral greys, we don't see hardly any down here.

[6.5x55SE]

Would prefer foreshore shooting or wash/marsh. I'm quite happy just to shoot feral greys, we don't see hardly any down here.

Possibly your closest option would be Kent Coast Swale/Sherness !!!!! or further afield Humber Estuary! !!!!

[ratty1]

Haven't thought about Kent, I shall look into that area.

[Barls2-9-12]

Yes in kent on the Swale you will get a chance at them plenty about there

[widgeon man]

You mean there were!!! Lol

[kippylawkid]

You could try the wash or maybe Lindisfarne.

Limited Greylag use Lindisfarne now. Pinkfeet are the major goose species now. 10 years ago it was greys that were prominent but pinks numbers increased with every passing year. Not entirely sure why this is.

[Penelope]

Heavier take in Iceland and short stopping in the Orkneys for Greys. Population increase in Pinks mean they need to find more suitable habitat, importantly, roosts.

 

Limited Greylag use Lindisfarne now. Pinkfeet are the major goose species now. 10 years ago it was greys that were prominent but pinks numbers increased with every passing year. Not entirely sure why this is.

[anser2]

Limited Greylag use Lindisfarne now. Pinkfeet are the major goose species now. 10 years ago it was greys that were prominent but pinks numbers increased with every passing year. Not entirely sure why this is.

This has also happened in other areas. back in the 40s the greylag was the main goose on the Solway , but numbers sharply declined once the pinks started to use the area. For a long time now the Solway has been mainly a pink foot estuary. Similar things have happened in Norfolk. Where areas were once canada strongholds , they are now mainly feral greylag areas.

 

As for why it happens I do not think anyone realy knows but greylags are more vulnrable to shooting than pinks who have a much better idea of how to avoid wildfowlers. Possibably the presence of large numbers of pinks increases shooting pressure ( as happened on the Solway in the 1950s and 60s ) and the increased shooting pressure moved the greylags on. In the case of canadas they can be very daft compared to greylags and certantly its rare to see a canada flying out of range of a shotgun in my county if you are under it, while greylag often do. I have seen flocks of canadas flying round and round a lake loseing some of their numbers with each circit without taking avoiding action ( flying high ) where as after the first few shots the greylags get up high out of range and clear off.

 

In the case of canadas I suspect its compertition on the breeding areas. I have seen in a number of places , ie Holkham , upper Wensum valley, some of the of the Broads strong breeding colonies of canadas attract the odd pair of greylag. Within a decade or so the canadas have declined or gone and it becomes a greylag breeding marsh.

Edited October 7, 2015 by anser2

[Penelope]

With regards to your statement that greys appear to oust canadas, from my experience and observations on the Lea Valley gravel pits on the Herts/Essex border (Fishing - spring/early summer), canadas appear to be the more aggressive of the two species when it comes to nesting habitat, driving greys off and from the numerous small islands that a lot of the pits contain.

 

This has also happened in other areas. back in the 40s the greylag was the main goose on the Solway , but numbers sharply declined once the pinks started to use the area. For a long time now the Solway has been mainly a pink foot estuary. Similar things have happened in Norfolk. Where areas were once canada strongholds , they are now mainly feral greylag areas.

 

As for why it happens I do not think anyone realy knows but greylags are more vulnrable to shooting than pinks who have a much better idea of how to avoid wildfowlers. Possibably the presence of large numbers of pinks increases shooting pressure ( as happened on the Solway in the 1950s and 60s ) and the increased shooting pressure moved the greylags on. In the case of canadas they can be very daft compared to greylags and certantly its rare to see a canada flying out of range of a shotgun in my county if you are under it, while greylag often do. I have seen flocks of canadas flying round and round a lake loseing some of their numbers with each circit without taking avoiding action ( flying high ) where as after the first few shots the greylags get up high out of range and clear off.

 

In the case of canadas I suspect its compertition on the breeding areas. I have seen in a number of places , ie Holkham , upper Wensum valley, some of the of the Broads strong breeding colonies of canadas attract the odd pair of greylag. Within a decade or so the canadas have declined or gone and it becomes a greylag breeding marsh.

[Penelope]

ratty - useful reading with regards to migratory greylags population and location.

 

http://monitoring.wwt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IGC_2014report.pdf

[ratty1]

Cheers for the link penelope, I shall look at that after tonight's flight,

[anser2]

Penelope , at first glance canadas have everything going for them, they are the larger more agressive goose, they nest 2-3 weeks before the greylags and should dominate the breeding areas. But canadas are in steep decline in Norfolk and greylags rising. Back in the 1960 we had 2000 at Holkham and no greylags. Today at Holkham there are around a thousand greylags and usually less than 100 canadas with just a handful nesting. I think the major factor is that greys are the natural British goose and can exploite the environment better. Greylag will eat almost any green vegetation while canadas like short fresh grass. You often see canada goslings feeding well away from water where they are at high risk from predation. In contrast greylag goslings are usually close to water and their young can escape easily from predators. These days we see very few large broods of canadas with most parents only raizing 1-2 goslings. In contrast its common to see greylag broods of 8 or 10 goslings ( I saw one of 16 this spring , though probably two broods combining though there were only 2 adults.

 

The other factor is back in the 1970s geese were uncommon and most landowners liked to see a few geese about, while today landowners see huge numbers of pinks and greys and are less tollerant. Culls take place on some estates and canadas are more vulnrable being such low flyers.

 

Looking in 2014 Norfolk bird report there were only 8 counts of 100 + canadas in the county and only one of those counts exceeded 200. In contrast there were 69 sites with 100+ greylag counts 41with 200 + counts and 8 sites with 500+ counts,with the highest being 1355. And this is in a county where the greylag population was around 100 in the 1950s. Both species suffer from egg pricking , organised culls and sometimes licenced cullls of flightless birds.

 

So clearly something is happening to favour the greylags , but working against the canadas. I suspect its because the greylag is better adapted to the British countryside and out competes the canada geese.

Edited October 7, 2015 by anser2

[Penelope]

Do you not think that being on GL is now the limiting factor on Canada numbers, with pest control (??) shooting reducing numbers significantly?

 

Apologies for the slight hijack ratty.

 

Penelope , at first glance canadas have everything going for them, they are the larger more agressive goose, they nest 2-3 weeks before the greylags and should dominate the breeding areas. But canadas are in steep decline in Norfolk and greylags rising. Back in the 1960 we had 2000 at Holkham and no greylags. Today at Holkham there are around a thousand greylags and usually less than 100 canadas with just a handful nesting. I think the major factor is that greys are the natural British goose and can exploite the environment better. Greylag will eat almost any green vegetation while canadas like short fresh grass. You often see canada goslings feeding well away from water where they are at high risk from predation. In contrast greylag goslings are usually close to water and their young can escape easily from predators. These days we see very few large broods of canadas with most parents only raizing 1-2 goslings. In contrast its common to see greylag broods of 8 or 10 goslings ( I saw one of 16 this spring , though probably two broods combining though there were only 2 adults.

 

The other factor is back in the 1970s geese were uncommon and most landowners liked to see a few geese about, while today landowners see huge numbers of pinks and greys and are less tollerant. Culls take place on some estates and canadas are more vulnrable being such low flyers.

 

Looking in 2014 Norfolk bird report there were only 8 counts of 100 + canadas in the county and only one of those counts exceeded 200. In contrast there were 69 sites with 100+ greylag counts 41with 200 + counts and 8 sites with 500+ counts,with the highest being 1355. And this is in a county where the greylag population was around 100 in the 1950s. Both species suffer from egg pricking , organised culls and sometimes licenced cullls of flightless birds.

 

So clearly something is happening to favour the greylags , but working against the canadas. I suspect its because the greylag is better adapted to the British countryside and out competes the canada geese.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Penelope

[Tony G]

On the gravel pit and old brick clay pits that I shoot in Bedforshire there has definately been a swing in numbers Canadas used to be the greater in numbers but its definately now Greys We even have a population of Barnacles !

[ratty1]

Hijack away to your hearts content, I think the topic very interesting

[Penelope]

By all accounts the same is true in the Northants area I shoot. The Lea/Stort valleys are still predominantly Canada strongholds. I regularly saw 100-200 on the flood meadows just outside Harlow from the train.

 

On the gravel pit and old brick clay pits that I shoot in Bedforshire there has definately been a swing in numbers Canadas used to be the greater in numbers but its definately now Greys We even have a population of Barnacles !

[anser2]

I can only talk for Norfolk , but the GL for canadas does not seem to be widely used. I have not heard of anyone shooting canadas out of season in the county. It has been used on some nature reserves and one or two estates , but mainly been rounding up and killing flightless geese ( both greylag and canada )and more commonly egg pricking , rather than wing shooting. This has only been used in a few cases , mainly where other waterbirds have been threatened during the nesting season. For example waders such as little ringed plover like to nest in gravel pit spits the very same place where geese like to rost and when large numbers of geese are present they can and do trample the nests of other birds.

 

Where arable damage is being caused by canadas or greylags the use of bird scaring rockets seems to be the prefered method of scaring geese.

Edited October 7, 2015 by anser2

[dawntredder]

Limited Greylag use Lindisfarne now. Pinkfeet are the major goose species now. 10 years ago it was greys that were prominent but pinks numbers increased with every passing year. Not entirely sure why this is.

yeh the only ones up Lindisfarne are resident to haggerston castle...lol!....a don't get why they never get mentioned from the late 70s & 80s coz I used to decoy inland at place just south of the island with me dad and sometimes there would be 2000 geese greylag on the fields feeding under the moon....yet Colin the warden at Lindisfarne says on that Chris green DVD (1st edition) that the island had only had grey geese there for 9 years :-/ that's a crock of ....!...unless he means on the sands of holy island...but they used to roost at budle bay and fenham flats! Edited October 7, 2015 by Robbie Forster

[kippylawkid]

yeh the only ones up Lindisfarne are resident to haggerston castle...lol!....a don't get why they never get mentioned from the late 70s & 80s coz I used to decoy inland at place just south of the island with me dad and sometimes there would be 2000 geese greylag on the fields feeding under the moon....yet Colin the warden at Lindisfarne says on that Chris green DVD (1st edition) that the island had only had grey geese there for 9 years :-/ that's a crock of ....!...unless he means on the sands of holy island...but they used to roost at budle bay and fenham flats!

I agree. I used to chase geese around that area too and pinks were a rarity. Now only the odd small groups of greylag make an appearance, with pink numbers increasing most years. I think Colin must mean Holy Island sands as he used to chase them too!

[dawntredder]

I agree. I used to chase geese around that area too and pinks were a rarity. Now only the odd small groups of greylag make an appearance, with pink numbers increasing most years. I think Colin must mean Holy Island sands as he used to chase them too!

 

yeh bud funny how they upped and left...left a few at haggy eh! ;-)