bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hi, Just picked up a nice little J W Tolley sxs and want to find out a little more about it. I know there were a Birmingham maker and more famous for bigger bore fouling guns but that's about it. Guns chambered 2.5" and nitro proofed for 11/8oz loads and it's chocked 1/2-cyl but curious as to its age. Also how do I tell if it's a sidelock or boxlock? Cheers in advance. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Without a photo or two and details of barrel engraving it is very difficult to give any info . Chances are its a boxlock and the only way of dating will be from the proof marks and barrel address There are no makers records in existence . Google Tolley and some more info on the company may be found as there is some scant company history in various books . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thanks, I'll get some pictures up later for you as soon as my kids are in bed about 8pm, I'm having daddy cuddles with a poorly little girl at the minute though, bless her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Daughters are more important . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Definitely! We've got twins, Jacobs just getting over a bug and Eleanor's just starting to get it, she's burning up poor lass! I'm just sorting the pictures now, need to shrink them then I'll post them👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Right, here they are finally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 More pics More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 More pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 What are the numbers/letters and their positioning in the little cross swords mark on the bottom left of the picture of the flats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I can't make it out from my photo's so will have to have a look tomorrow in daylight. I'm guessing that's the important bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) The proof marks indicate it was proofed in Birmingham under the 1925 rules of proof, it could have been made somewhere between then and 1954? Are there any marks on the tubes if so can you put up a picture? Wisemans at Cannock currently own the Tolley name! PS Its a box lock! Edited October 13, 2015 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hi It's a box lock mate Can't help with much else I'm afraid All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Thanks guys. Only marks on the barrels are these- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It appears the gun (a box lock ejector) was made in 1936/37 by Skimmin and Wood (probably in the Bham trade) who took over the Tolley name from Holloway and Naughton, again if you can get a better picture of the cross swords mark (with letter and number) on the barrel flats (in the first picture, bottom left, under the number 12) it may confirm this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 That's great mate, thanks for the info. I'll try get that picture tonight. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Not a lot more can be said . Its a typical Birmingham made boxlock of middling quality , nothing fancy just a good working gun . FJ Wiseman do hold title to the name and having known the Wiseman's for years I have asked them about Tolley and been told there are no records for Tolley in existence . Hope the little one gets over her bug soon . Edited October 14, 2015 by Gunman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Identical engraving to my charles Osbourne sxs. Who were also bought out by skimmin i believe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Thanks again you've all been a big help. It's a nice little gun, as you say nothing fancy but for £120 I'm more than happy. Only downside is it's only 2.5" chambers so limits cartridge choice a little but I'll manage. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Nowt wrong with 2.5" cartridges-these guns were designed when 2.5 was the norm and they are more than capable of killing at normal shotgun ranges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The 'JA' on the barrels, ( for those better informed than me) does that indicate that they were made by Joseph Asbury. I have a gun with those initials and was once told that's who made them. Just a thought, as most Birmingham guns passed through several pairs of hands/ out workers during their production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Vector Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 "The 'JA' on the barrels, ( for those better informed than me) does that indicate that they were made by Joseph Asbury. I have a gun with those initials and was once told that's who made them." I belive you are correct. I've several guns with either the tubes or actions marked up so. Did a bit of research and came up with same conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Asbury were machinists supplying parts to the trade ,These would have been actions with forend in various types , inside work to suit and built up barrel ready for jointing and filed up furniture's . The machining was by todays standards fairly rough so there was a high degree of hand fitting and filling up . Only larger makers would have had their own machine shops . I believe they were eventually bought out by AA Brown but are not an operational company . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nowt wrong with 2.5" cartridges-these guns were designed when 2.5 was the norm and they are more than capable of killing at normal shotgun ranges Was having a blonde moment I'd forgotten 2.5" covered 67mm too, I'd got 65mm stuck in my head which seem to have less selection compared to 67mm, 70mm etc.. Ironically I've actually got 2 boxes of Hulmax 34g no3 and 2 boxes of Hulmax 34g BB's all in 65mm in a draw upstairs. I can have a play with at the weekend till I can afford a slab of no7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Not sure if pushing 34grams thru her is wise-1 1/8 I seem to recall is 32gram and I'm guessing that's what she was designed to throw at a maximum-if you don't mind me saying (tin hat on) you seem eager to throw as heavy a load as you can thru her-she's an old girl and will outlast you with ease if you treat her right-these guns were mass made for sure, but by the best Gunmakers in the world who outsourced most individual tasks to men who had spent their lives doing such work-they did it right or were out of a job. Enjoy her for what she is-a piece of living history that was crafted by men who have ,most likely, gone for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 The 'JA' on the barrels, ( for those better informed than me) does that indicate that they were made by Joseph Asbury. I have a gun with those initials and was once told that's who made them. Just a thought, as most Birmingham guns passed through several pairs of hands/ out workers during their production. Absolutely correct about the Birmingham gun trade. The name on the gun was usually just the shop that sold it, all the work was farmed out to the hundreds of little workshops and men who made up the gun quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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