Cosd Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Another money spinner for BASC. Preying on those without permissions, kick in the nuts for those with permission that might lose it. David, you've told us what it won't cost the farmers, you haven't told us what it will cost the shooters? How many courses will have to be paid for and what happens when no birds show after all that money is spent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Not keen on this at all. It's no secret I'm no fan of BASC but I would be equally unkeen on any organisation doing it either. For any organisation to try and create an exclusive club where it's members only, can have access to land to shoot over stinks, in my opinion. Thankfully it wont affect me or my mates. +1 Do not be deceived on this New Venture, They already have their fingers in the pie of shooting clubs, claiming they GEt The RIGHT to shoot The Foreshores only through them.. Please do not think they are doing you a favor, the opposite in fact, do not bow down to this one, you will get the same reaction wildfowlers got.. This is one step TOO FAR :: Be Warned.. Vote NO.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 People have probably shot themselves in the foot by not providing the service that growers want. Too many situations where pests are allowed carry on destroying crops while the shooter is 'waiting for numbers to build up so we can have a good day'. I suppose it depends on whether farmers want pigeon shooters or pigeon scarers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Will BASC be vetting the members who will be doing the scheme as surely they they could be as guilty as the ones already doing the pest control where it is "not carried out as well as some farmers would like"? Hopefully BASC will run lots of course to make the members aware of all duties needed to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 No one has to go on a course , if a farmer gets in touch who has a problem with pigeons or other pests then we simply contact members in the area and work with them to set up a club. This club will operate under a shooting lease, which had been drawn up by BASC and the NFU The idea of having a club was developed with the NFU, some farmers have reported issues when they have just one shooter on the land, and the pigeons drop in, but their shooter is at work on holiday, off sick ect - other farmers reported having up to 20 shooters on their list, so they had to spend time calling the list when there was a problem...not great is it when you are trying to run a farming business But with a club, the farmer needs to call one person, the club Sec, who then calls the relevant club member(s) to get down to the farm, The feedback about the issues that many farmers are facing with pests came from the NFU. not dreamed up by BASC as some have suggested As I and others have said, if you are looking after your farmers, keeping on top of the pests you have nothing at all to be worried about, for those farmers who have an issue they can contact BASC and we will set up the club as i have said David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 No one has to go on a course , if a farmer gets in touch who has a problem with pigeons or other pests then we simply contact members in the area and work with them to set up a club. This club will operate under a shooting lease, which had been drawn up by BASC and the NFU The idea of having a club was developed with the NFU, some farmers have reported issues when they have just one shooter on the land, and the pigeons drop in, but their shooter is at work on holiday, off sick ect - other farmers reported having up to 20 shooters on their list, so they had to spend time calling the list when there was a problem...not great is it when you are trying to run a farming business But with a club, the farmer needs to call one person, the club Sec, who then calls the relevant club member(s) to get down to the farm, The feedback about the issues that many farmers are facing with pests came from the NFU. not dreamed up by BASC as some have suggested As I and others have said, if you are looking after your farmers, keeping on top of the pests you have nothing at all to be worried about, for those farmers who have an issue they can contact BASC and we will set up the club as i have said David So will BASC members have to pay BASC for the privilege of pigeon shooting? Also, how is BASC going to vet the shooters and ensure they fulfill this promis to the farmers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Oh and another point, perhaps all of you who are worried about this project will have the courtesy to reply to this simple question: Given that this project has been running for over 12 months...how many of you have lost your pigeon shooting due the the BASC /NFU club scheme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Cosd As I posted, the club will operate under a shooting lease. the shooting leave will describe the terms that the club operates under, what they are expected to deliver etc. As to cost, well they have to be BASC members, as a club the member will decide if there are any others costs that would need to be covered under an additional club membership fee, this is exactly how all clubs operate as I am sure we both know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Oh and another point, perhaps all of you who are worried about this project will have the courtesy to reply to this simple question: Given that this project has been running for over 12 months...how many of you have lost your pigeon shooting due the the BASC /NFU club scheme? Come on David!! Even at a year old the scheme is at an infant stage, so your question is premature at best. Why not ask the question of how many people have lost their permision/s due to club syndicates which this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Cosd As I posted, the club will operate under a shooting lease. the shooting leave will describe the terms that the club operates under, what they are expected to deliver etc. As to cost, well they have to be BASC members, as a club the member will decide if there are any others costs that would need to be covered under an additional club membership fee, this is exactly how all clubs operate as I am sure we both know. David, I'm sure you know I am a supporter of BASC, and I respect you/they do a lot for shooting. With this scheme (which I wasn't aware of), we will have to agree to disagree!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi David BASC Good to see this is both a basc and nfu idea so one assumes; 1) you do not need to be a member of basc if you are a member of the nfu (and visa-versa) and will still be included in the shooting. 2) before any new club is set up basc/ nfu will look to see if their is already a club in that area and offer the land to that club first. If done fairly with the real interests of providing free shooting to both basc and nfu members then I can see no issue But sadly as others suggest it rather looks like a money making opportunity for the basc/nfu. Comments please David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I spend a huge amount of time watching all my permissions looking for opportunities. When one does arise the last thing you want is half the county jumping in on it. This will appeal to newish inexperienced shooters who are grateful just to have somewhere to go and make some noise but it wont do much for real pest control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 No one has to go on a course , if a farmer gets in touch who has a problem with pigeons or other pests then we simply contact members in the area and work with them to set up a club. This club will operate under a shooting lease, which had been drawn up by BASC and the NFU The idea of having a club was developed with the NFU, some farmers have reported issues when they have just one shooter on the land, and the pigeons drop in, but their shooter is at work on holiday, off sick ect - other farmers reported having up to 20 shooters on their list, so they had to spend time calling the list when there was a problem...not great is it when you are trying to run a farming business But with a club, the farmer needs to call one person, the club Sec, who then calls the relevant club member(s) to get down to the farm, The feedback about the issues that many farmers are facing with pests came from the NFU. not dreamed up by BASC as some have suggested As I and others have said, if you are looking after your farmers, keeping on top of the pests you have nothing at all to be worried about, for those farmers who have an issue they can contact BASC and we will set up the club as i have said David Thanks for clarifying. As a general response and not just to David, as I said earlier if I was employed with BASC then this is something that I would definitely develop and promote as it very much ties in with their brief of promoting responsible shooting and given that it has been instigated by farmers then it also responds to market needs. I can understand why some shooters will look at it cynically, but farming is a business and ultimately this is a business like approach from BASC and the NFU. What it does highlight really well is the different perspectives between farmer and shooter. In general shooters are hugely grateful to have the opportunity to shoot over someone's land, all the shooting is done at the shooter's cost and on top of that the shooter will often give a bottle at Christmas, etc; for the farmers that have gone to the NFU they are looking at it differently, it is something that is absolutely necessary for them and a business need, it is a simple commodity service and the bonus for them is that it costs nothing. Shooters look at it as a thing of personal loyalty, the farmers (in this case) don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I thought BASC affiliated clubs could already join such a scheme. I think members of Dorset Wildfowlers pay £5 a year to be on a list who are willing to turn out when required. It doesn't need new clubs in most areas. When I read the first post, I assumed there would need to be a BASC local co-ordinator to run it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I suppose it depends on whether farmers want pigeon shooters or pigeon scarers. I think it depends on whether farmers want pigeons on their crops or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 This will turn into a commercial opportunity for BASC, I bet you'll end up having top pay £50 a day to provide a service, I bet the farmers will end up paying BASC £50 a day for a shooter so the only winner is BASC!! Bad bad idea... holy fly their are some cynics on here....surely it is BASC trying to open up shooting opportunities for all...good luck to them.To be blunt I dont need more land etc and cannot think of any landowner/farm etc around that does not know enough local shooters all ready so cannot see this going anywhere...but think about it linking Shooters/Farms and BASC is'nt the most threatening action!!!!!!!it is good for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 As I posted, the club will operate under a shooting lease. the shooting leave will describe the terms that the club operates under, what they are expected to deliver etc. I doubt most farmers will want anything to do with leases. Some will be tenants, some will need permission from their lender/mortgagee, some will just suffer from commitment phobia. They just want a telephone number they can call to get someone on the field tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I remain very cynical I'm afraid. I have little faith in BASC's sincerity and can't believe they are doing this with the benefit of either the shooter or farmers uppermost in their mind. BASC are a business; there will be an agenda and a motive involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakeside1000 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I put my name forward to the BASC when I joined 4 years ago to be available for this service, I have not had a single call from them to undertake any pest control of any kind around Norfolk, I now have many permissions and also enjoy wild fowling so thankfully I am not waiting by the phone for the call to arms, As a retired person with much time on my hands and over 50 years of shooting experience if I am not what they are looking for, who is ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Most shoots/land around here want shooters to be basc members...it shows an element of responsibilty and at least we know they are insured........the triangle of BASC/landowner/shooter is not a daft mix....what am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 What it does highlight really well is the different perspectives between farmer and shooter. In general shooters are hugely grateful to have the opportunity to shoot over someone's land, all the shooting is done at the shooter's cost and on top of that the shooter will often give a bottle at Christmas, That's when the problems start, after a bit, it will be the shooter that gets called and not the co-ordinator. I have put fellow club members onto thousands of acres of pigeon shooting and rabbiting over the years and this happens all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Why on earth would this ever take off ? I personally dont know any farmers that are members of basc . And 99% OF famers are in the mindset that if there shooter is not doing his job ... So what there be someone else knocking on my door by the end of the week i will see what there like Or ..... I will just pick one the phone numbers from the pile i have in the office . Or then again ill just give pete on the farm next door a bell a see if his chap will call round after all if pete TRUSTS him . Thats good enough for me . Edited November 20, 2015 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Oh and another point, perhaps all of you who are worried about this project will have the courtesy to reply to this simple question: Given that this project has been running for over 12 months...how many of you have lost your pigeon shooting due the the BASC /NFU club scheme? So how many members have shot under this proposal, I bet you do not find one on here.. If you agree to it,, its an OWN Goal. DO NOT believe a word they tell you.. How many farmers need any more shooters, try knocking a few doors and send letters.. You will not get many replies, its a back door ruse, keep well away from it or you WILL REGRET it.. They are in it For CONTROL nothing else. Be Warned.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Most shoots/land around here want shooters to be basc members...it shows an element of responsibilty and at least we know they are insured........the triangle of BASC/landowner/shooter is not a daft mix....what am I missing? I find this "statistic" incredible. I have around 5000 acres covered by over 20 farms and i would bet a fair bit of money not one land owner could tell you who BASC is let along want me to be a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) this idea may mean shooters loosing their permissions to BASC members! And Basc members who work Mon-Fri will be fighting to get a few hours shooting at weekends However if your a shift worker who can commit week days then your'e probably onto a winner BB The only pull Basc will get from advertising this service IMHO is it could possibly see an increase in Membership on the chance you could pick up some shooting BB Edited November 20, 2015 by Bluebarrels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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