BASC Pigeon shooting service

[David BASC]

Anser, no they are not going to have to share their shooting as I have said repeatedly, if the farmer is happy with the incumbent shooter and what they are doing for them, please explain to me why he or she will then ask others to come onto the land to shoot the pigeons?

 

To say BASC should not be helping to provide shooting for its members is laughable - do you suggest we should stop the stalking schemes, stop the wildfowling permit schemes, take down the GoShooting site, ...come on!

 

To suggest or infer that those who cant find shooting should give up or not take up the sport in the first place is unbelievable , are you saying that while in the 10 years you were looking for pigeon shooting, BASC has told you of an opportunity in your area you would have turned it down?

[anser2]

Most pigeon shooters are not available to shoot 7 days a week , so if the farmer wants 7 day a week crop protection and turns to BASC then the guys who already have the shooting on the farm will lose out by arriving to find someone else on the ground and by the pigeons becoming very wary and difficult to shoot in numbers. Many farmers like to have someone they know and trust shooting their land , but some just want the pigeons shot and could not care who or how many shoots their pigeons.This will probably result in fewer pigeons being shot. I did not join BASC for it to find my shooting! If I want to shoot an area then I find out from landowners or clubs not BASC. And if someone else has the shooting then I look elsewhere. I joined WAGBI and then BASC to protect my shooting not threaten it.

 

There is no reason for any one to be unable to find shooting , even if you do not live in the countryside there is plenty advertised in the sporting and local press, plus lots of agencies that can provide it. There is no need for BASC to be providing it and one with more than one brain cell can find it for themselves. As for for BASC telling me of an local opportunity then if any else already had the shooting on the land ( and on 99% of farms that allow shooting someone already has the shooting) and then yes i would turn it down. I feel very strongly that you never encroach on some ones shooting and I have been asked several times to shoot on a farm where someone already shoots pigeons and I have usually turned it down though on one large farm one guy only shot the fields close to his home so I would shoot the other part of the farm , but only after meeting with him to check he had no intention of shooting the other sections of the farm.

 

To me BASCs job is to protect my sport from new laws, public pressure,the conservation lobby not to provide me with shooting grounds, that's something I can do for myself, what I cant do is fight govenment or outside threats from the police , EU or the conservation lobby and that is BASCs job.

Edited February 2, 2016 by anser2

[bakerboy]

Most pigeon shooters are not available to shoot 7 days a week , so if the farmer wants 7 day a week crop protection and turns to BASC then the guys who already have the shooting on the farm will lose out by arriving to find someone else on the ground and by the pigeons becoming very wary and difficult to shoot in numbers. Many farmers like to have someone they know and trust shooting their land , but some just want the pigeons shot and could not care who or how many shoots their pigeons.This will probably result in fewer pigeons being shot. I did not join BASC for it to find my shooting! If I want to shoot an area then I find out from landowners or clubs not BASC. And if someone else has the shooting then I look elsewhere. I joined WAGBI and then BASC to protect my shooting not threaten it.

 

There is no reason for any one to be unable to find shooting , even if you do not live in the countryside there is plenty advertised in the sporting and local press, plus lots of agencies that can provide it. There is no need for BASC to be providing it and one with more than one brain cell can find it for themselves. As for for BASC telling me of an local opportunity then if any else already had the shooting on the land ( and on 99% of farms that allow shooting someone already has the shooting) and then yes i would turn it down. I feel very strongly that you never encroach on some ones shooting and I have been asked several times to shoot on a farm where someone already shoots pigeons and I have usually turned it down though on one large farm one guy only shot the fields close to his home so I would shoot the other part of the farm , but only after meeting with him to check he had no intention of shooting the other sections of the farm.

 

To me BASCs job is to protect my sport from new laws, public pressure,the conservation lobby not to provide me with shooting grounds, that's something I can do for myself, what I cant do is fight govenment or outside threats from the police , EU or the conservation lobby and that is BASCs job.

 

 

If 99% of the farms that allow shooting have some one shooting,, does that not make it a little difficult to find shooting

[David BASC]

We must remember that we are talking about pest control, this is a serious issue to many land owners and you have hit the nail on the head , in the context that sometimes farmers need more help than just the occasional visit by a lone recreational shooter. There is no reason why the incumbent shooter should loose out only because the farmer needs more crop protection - what stops that person from joining the group - nothing.

 

Indeed you have proven it to yourself that its possible for more than one person to shoot the same bit of land...

 

You are perfectly correct that BASC's role is far wider than providing shooting opportunities for its members, but also please remember that this forms part of one of our key objectives within 'The continued opportunity to go shooting'

[mikee]

Most pigeon shooters are not available to shoot 7 days a week , so if the farmer wants 7 day a week crop protection and turns to BASC then the guys who already have the shooting on the farm will lose out by arriving to find someone else on the ground and by the pigeons becoming very wary and difficult to shoot in numbers. Many farmers like to have someone they know and trust shooting their land , but some just want the pigeons shot and could not care who or how many shoots their pigeons.This will probably result in fewer pigeons being shot. I did not join BASC for it to find my shooting! If I want to shoot an area then I find out from landowners or clubs not BASC. And if someone else has the shooting then I look elsewhere. I joined WAGBI and then BASC to protect my shooting not threaten it.

 

There is no reason for any one to be unable to find shooting , even if you do not live in the countryside there is plenty advertised in the sporting and local press, plus lots of agencies that can provide it. There is no need for BASC to be providing it and one with more than one brain cell can find it for themselves. As for for BASC telling me of an local opportunity then if any else already had the shooting on the land ( and on 99% of farms that allow shooting someone already has the shooting) and then yes i would turn it down. I feel very strongly that you never encroach on some ones shooting and I have been asked several times to shoot on a farm where someone already shoots pigeons and I have usually turned it down though on one large farm one guy only shot the fields close to his home so I would shoot the other part of the farm , but only after meeting with him to check he had no intention of shooting the other sections of the farm.

 

To me BASCs job is to protect my sport from new laws, public pressure,the conservation lobby not to provide me with shooting grounds, that's something I can do for myself, what I cant do is fight govenment or outside threats from the police , EU or the conservation lobby and that is BASCs job.

 

that is spot on Anser, BASC has over stepped its remit on this one, just an excuse to be seen in another area, its not right and we dont want it, do what BASC is intended to do fight government and the anti etc not go touting for shooting, leave that to the shooters

[BrowningB525]

I am going to be honest, as a BASC member, I'd jump at this.

[Guest stevo]

so david basc , bakerboy are your shoots going on the list too ??

[mikee]

 

 

If 99% of the farms that allow shooting have some one shooting,, does that not make it a little difficult to find shooting

 

that is true Bakerboy, those without shooting need to do what most of us with shooting did, got out and found it and in some cases waited until the resident shooter moved on or got kicked off, its not down to BASC to get involved

[bakerboy]

so david basc , bakerboy are your shoots going on the list too ??

I take many shooters, and many that have never shot Pigeons before the day, to my permissions and always have done, "no charge"

 

If my permission owners felt that I was not doing what is required then I am sure they may well contact BASC or someone that knocks on the door at the right time.

 

It is not for the permission holders to place their permissions on a list, it is for the Farmers that are dissatisfied, or want more Shooters on their land to undertake effective Pest Control.

If you have a good dialogue with your Farmers you have nothing to worry about.

Edited February 2, 2016 by bakerboy

[David BASC]

My pigeon shoot has 20 members, some work full time some are retired. We have good relationship with our farmers so I doubt the farmers on our shoot will be asking anyone else to help control the pests. The shoot i am a keeper on is mainly livestock and what fodder crops are planted tend not to be hit by pigeons, but year round pest shooting is available to the guns and some members of the beating and picking up team of around 25 people so again i doubt the farmers on the estate will be calling BASC

 

BASC will keep on delivering on its objectives and if landowners contact us asking for our members to help control pests or take on or develop a shoot on the land, we will help them as much as possible, but evidently if I post any such opportunities on here it will not be welcome, so I wont be doing that. . But we will contact members in the area directly

[Savhmr]

If landowners have to contact BASC for help, then clearly, their current arrangements are insufficient to meet their needs and BASC are providing a positive service for both farmers and shooters alike. I can't help but feel a little butt-hurt off some here is a knee jerk to lost opportunities...whose fault is that then? No-one has an inalienable right to claim a permission as theirs and there's alone on the basis of infrequent visits, as it belongs to the landowner unless shooting rights have been legally transferred, so for all the one a month weekend shooters, it is highly unlikely that your current arrangements will be spoilt at all as in all likelihood, if relations are good with your landowners, why would you lose any shooting? As to pigeons becoming more wary...tough. Its crop protection the landowner is primarily concerned with, not providing free sporting opportunities, plus that being the case, it leaves plenty of pigeons (read "sport") available for all. I don't understand the whinging on this as it seems a sensible service and doesn't pretend to offer a solution to anything other than increasing opportunities to shooters and landowners alike. I'd have no issue with such a scheme operating on my shooting land providing my regular shooting wasn't taken away, which it wouldn't be. Commercially motivated sport shooting is something I personally have a big problem with, but what David describes doesn't appear to be that at all.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Savhmr

[silver pigeon69]

David,

out of interest, have you had many farmers/landowners use this service? If so, how are the BASC members that are contacted to help, selected?

[Fatcatsplat]

This comes back to the time old chestnut of being blocked out of shooting locally by either:

 

a well known shooter with thousands of acres under his control, shot well at harvest by him and his mates but neglected for the rest of the year

or

a pigeon shooting club full of old duffers that is a closed shop until someone dies

or

a farmer that charges a fee and lets whole battalions shoot on his land so that the only thing remaining alive are small insects (They have shot the larger ones already)

 

taking very field, copse and clearing for miles around. I'm very much subject to all three where I live and the land that I do shoot on I got by pure luck in knowing someone that knew someone, that knew someone! If you were born in your village and took shooting up reasonably early and did all the beating you could as a child, it stands to reason that you will know more farmers and shooting people that will know you and allow you access to shooting. For me, I come from the city, moved to the country(ish!) and started on clays. When I wanted to try to move to pigeons and live game I had an absolutely cold start and was met with declines at every turn.

 

Having .said all this I was on a BASC pigeon shooting course 3 or 4 years (with MC who used to be on here) and we were put on the list back then - Still waiting for the phone call!!

 

If BASC can get this off the ground and get other people shooting then all power to their elbow

[Mentalmac]

I would wager that the amount of shooters to permissions is around 10 - 1 AT LEAST. Then, some of the farms who's shooters don't often turn up or aren't that interested will want to find new people. I have accrued permissions on this basis plenty of times now.

A farm having to wait for someone who knock, or contacting a reputable association they saw in a reputable mag, with a list of insured shooters? - obvious choice. Not all farmers are going to keep stacks of cheaply made business cards with cliche vermin control names or post it's with numbers on in their drawer just incase old bert doesn't come shooting anymore, some of them will likely favour the service at some point.

 

The problem here is that people are all assuming that BASC are trying to take shooting away from people and make money - well, this is not the case (and if anyone actually read David's posts they would understand this). David isn't employed by BASC to manipulate PW'ers minds and steal their shooting land and make money for BASC's fleet of imaginary Range Rover sports... and in fact I have met David before and he's a thoroughly decent chap.

BASC is obviously trying to service a large portion of their membership who can't find pigeon shooting, help farmers by supplying insured guns, and there isn't any money changing hands... seems simple enough to me.

[BrowningB525]

I would wager that the amount of shooters to permissions is around 10 - 1 AT LEAST. Then, some of the farms who's shooters don't often turn up or aren't that interested will want to find new people. I have accrued permissions on this basis plenty of times now.

 

A farm having to wait for someone who knock, or contacting a reputable association they saw in a reputable mag, with a list of insured shooters? - obvious choice. Not all farmers are going to keep stacks of cheaply made business cards with cliche vermin control names or post it's with numbers on in their drawer just incase old bert doesn't come shooting anymore, some of them will likely favour the service at some point.

 

The problem here is that people are all assuming that BASC are trying to take shooting away from people and make money - well, this is not the case (and if anyone actually read David's posts they would understand this). David isn't employed by BASC to manipulate PW'ers minds and steal their shooting land and make money for BASC's fleet of imaginary Range Rover sports... and in fact I have met David before and he's a thoroughly decent chap.

BASC is obviously trying to service a large portion of their membership who can't find pigeon shooting, help farmers by supplying insured guns, and there isn't any money changing hands... seems simple enough to me.

Hear hear.

 

BASC bashing seems to be a bigger sport on here than actual pigeon shooting.

[Mentalmac]

Hear hear.

 

BASC bashing seems to be a bigger sport on here than actual pigeon shooting.

I agree, it is a fairly thankless job for the most part I would imagine - if they don't do something then people get annoyed, and if they do get involved in something then people get annoyed. If they lobby Government on something and it doesn't work, they didn't do enough, and if it did work then people don't hear about it and concentrate on what wasn't achieved.

 

As it's been said on this thread before, if the farmers are happy with your service and you are confident that you are doing a good job, and have a good relationship with the landowners, the farmers won't need to call in anyone else. I fear that the most part of the people against this likely have more acres than reasonable and aren't willing to share.

[David BASC]

Interestingly there has been quite a bit of interest from landowners, but not for pigeons - only 4 farms so far with pigeons. More with other pests and we are setting up a few pilots for this, I think there will be a report on this in the next S&C

 

Members are selected based on locality, i.e. members within 25 miles or less, depending on the size of the opportunity, are contacted in the first place

[Scully]

I agree, it is a fairly thankless job for the most part I would imagine - if they don't do something then people get annoyed, and if they do get involved in something then people get annoyed. If they lobby Government on something and it doesn't work, they didn't do enough, and if it did work then people don't hear about it and concentrate on what wasn't achieved.

 

 

Much like politicians and the police they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Tough; the big organisations wanted the job and get paid for it.