JDog Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) The thread 'where have all the pigeons gone?' has elucidated all of the usual queries about pigeon feeding times, or more accurately why they don't appear to feed on rape but just sit up in the trees. I cannot add much to the thread save for the fact that I have pondered over this for years and years without a satisfactory answer. But pigeons do feed otherwise they would be dead. Are they necessarily hungry? That is a different matter altogether. Possibly my favourite book (those top shelf items are really magazines) is 'The Borders and Beyond' by Abel Chapman. This is a read and a half and I have read it ten times at least. Chapman was an educated Victorian sportsman who shot almost everything that moved including seals and 'tweety birds' purely for educational reasons you understand. Whilst grouse are not pigeons and therefore not of the same species they are of the same genus and I thought that quoting some of Chapman's experiences in the field may help to explain why most of us get frustrated in not being able to fathom when pigeons will feed on rape in earnest. Chapman has been watching grouse all morning and none have been feeding...........' Midday arrives and conditions remain unchanged - never since dawn has a grouse set his beak in earnest to the heather - indeed at many moorland luncheons during thirty odd years I have examined in all some thousands of grouse and never yet (nor will such ever occur) has a single bird been found crop full, or half full or an eighth full between dawn and 3pm'. Chapman continues..... ' Now the sun begins to lower and what a change occurs! Every grouse is now 'on feed' in earnest guzzling for all he is worth -all heads down. Each puts in thirty strokes to the minute, for he is working against the clock. A brace shot at the last moment when sighting was possible, were crop-crammed to distortion'. It is possible that pigeons may not be hungry all day even in cold weather and that quick feeds first thing in the morning and last thing at night will be sufficient for them to get through the night? Edited January 20, 2016 by JDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I don't think a crop full of rape takes that long to gather. The thread 'where have all the pigeons gone?' has elucidated all of the usual queries about pigeon feeding times, or more accurately why they don't appear to feed on rape but just sit up in the trees. I cannot add much to the thread save for the fact that I have pondered over this for years and years without a satisfactory answer. But pigeons do feed otherwise they would be dead. Are they necessarily hungry? That is a different matter altogether. Possibly my favourite book (those top shelf items are really magazines) is 'The Borders and beyond' by Abel Chapman. This is a read and a half and I have read it ten times at least. Chapman was an educated Victorian sportsman who shot almost everything that moved including seals and 'tweety birds' purely for educational reasons you understand. Whilst grouse are not pigeons and therefore not of the same species they are of the same genus and I thought that quoting some of Chapman's experiences in the field may help to explain why most of us get frustrated in not being able to fathom when pigeons will feed on rape in earnest. Chapman has been watching grouse all morning and none have been feeding...........' Midday arrives and conditions remain unchanged - never since dawn has a grouse set his beak in earnest to the heather - indeed at many moorland luncheons during thirty odd years I have examined in all some thousands of grouse and never yet (nor will such ever occur) has a single bird been found crop full, or half full or an eighth full between dawn and 3pm'. Chapman continues..... ' Now the sun begins to lower and what a change occurs! Every grouse is now 'on feed' in earnest guzzling for all he is worth -all heads down. Each puts in thirty strokes to the minute, for he is working against the clock. A brace shot at the last moment when sighting was possible, were crop-crammed to distortion'. It is possible that pigeons may not be hungry all day even in cold weather and that quick feeds first thing in the morning and last thing at night will be sufficient for them to get through the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 From my expirence, you will have a first light feed and a late afternoon feed. When you see birds feeding during the day this is a flock reaction and they will join the flock and feed. I can not recall shooting a bird mid morning with its crop rammed but with just a token amount of food. I'm willing to be proved otherwise but birds will rest in trees during the feed sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 interesting............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotguneddy Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I've been out 3 times today watching for pigeons on 3 different rape fields spanning a total 300-400 acres, 8 o'clock birds already settled in the trees and very few dropping into it, Then 12 o'clock same fields, birds still sat in the sorounding trees with just a select few feeding in thawed area's. Finally 2 o'clock same fields again, and completely blue with pigeons in the trees and a good 25-50 came out of it and joined the couple of hundred already in the trees, we get a big problem with walkers purposely walking on our private perm so birds can never settle long before walkers scare them off never to return again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I posted in the 'where have all the pigeons gone' thread mentioning a huge flock feeding, or at least on the ground as well as in various trees, on a field of maize stubble which I can see from an upstairs window. The birds don't appear to arrive all at once but begin to build up throughout the early morning and I mean early, as in just before sunrise. They are on the ground and in the trees continually with more joining and others leaving during the afternoon. I think that this thread is more concerned with rape but I can't imagine it's that different no matter what they are feeding on. My vague conclusions are that an early feed is essential and a free choice throughout the day, alternating between spells in the trees and then a feed later in the day with some choosing a change of diet. No idea if any of this is at all helpful. Just my recent observations over the past 10 days or so. There is a small up-date on this. I now have permission to shoot this particular field and plan to do so on Saturday, weather permitting. GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted January 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I don't think a crop full of rape takes that long to gather. That my dear Penelope is precisely the point. Three quick smash and grab raids throughout the day may be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 That my dear Penelope is precisely the point. Three quick smash and grab raids throughout the day may be enough. story of my culinary life.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 This thread does not cover the different decoying/feeding behaviour over rape when the birds are in large flocks in mid-winter and when these flocks split up in spring. When in large flocks they are hesitant to come into a pattern but will rather pass by and sit in nearby trees. Later in spring when travelling in small flocks/pairs they will decoy straight into a pattern. Is it in winter they are feeding just to survive and if they have plenty of body fat (as they seem to have this year) and food is plentiful, then they are in no rush to feed whereas in spring/summer they are stocking up more energy ready for breeding/rearing again, and again in the autumn they are re-stocking up the body fat for winter I am sure if food was scarce and the winter hard they would not be sitting around in trees most of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 This thread does not cover the different decoying/feeding behaviour over rape when the birds are in large flocks in mid-winter and when these flocks split up in spring. When in large flocks they are hesitant to come into a pattern but will rather pass by and sit in nearby trees. Later in spring when travelling in small flocks/pairs they will decoy straight into a pattern. Is it in winter they are feeding just to survive and if they have plenty of body fat (as they seem to have this year) and food is plentiful, then they are in no rush to feed whereas in spring/summer they are stocking up more energy ready for breeding/rearing again, and again in the autumn they are re-stocking up the body fat for winter I am sure if food was scarce and the winter hard they would not be sitting around in trees most of the day. think this might have something to-do with it. UK rape sown 1975, 3000 hectares UK rape sown 2015, 700,000 hectares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 that is a real eye opener................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The real problem is they can just go elsewhere too easily. Roll on a bit of growth with bare patches to funnel them in to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think there are many factors which determines what food pigeons will feed on. The variety of other food (from acorn to berries, from seeds to clove), it's availability (as mentioned) the proximity to towns (and litter) all have an influence on their diet. Pigeons are known to be making trips of up to 40 Km to feed on what they like so, it's no surprise if a rape field is left untouched for months if something more appealing is somewhere close. On my perm, this year, no rape were touched since they got sown, they're all healthy and good looking for the joy of the sheeps Same goes for the time of the day: rape is a very fatty food so, there are chances that in a normal day (no snow, no freezing temperatures), if the field is in close proximity to the roosting place, a feed in the morning and one in the afternoon is sufficient. This will also explain in part why in some instances if you shoot pigeons on rape in the morning, they will disappear and not return till the afternoon... or not return at all. Rape, in my experience, are effective either when they're sown or in snowy/freezing condition when other food might be covered up and the shoots stand out, or when the birds need fat to keep warm. In all other conditions I found it kind of a hit and miss: many times I decoyed birds on rape whom had all but rape in their gull... showing that they only came in coz they'd seen the decoys, otherwise they would have not looked at the field at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Some interesting points made in the above posts, just to add to it i think it could be possible that pigeons that are sat up in the trees most of the day [as observed by many lately], are using very little energy and therefore not needing a lot of food. When they are more active during the spring they are using more energy flying around, courting etc and therefore needing food more frequently. A bit like us when we are grafting or using more pyhsical energy we have more appetite and need more food to replace used energy? They keep us guessing whatever, and that's part of the reason we never get bored of our sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Slightly off topic, i remember 30 odd years ago during a cold spell, shooting pigeons until it was virtually dark, they cant go to roost hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 At this time of year I am always set up just before the first pigeons arrive, i'm talking about on cover crops so got a very good idea what and how many are using the area. I would not take the gamble of doing this on a rape field, even on maize it starts to dry up by dinner at the moment with the mild weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Same goes for the time of the day: rape is a very fatty food so, there are chances that in a normal day (no snow, no freezing temperatures), if the field is in close proximity to the roosting place, a feed in the morning and one in the afternoon is sufficient. I don't think rape leaves are fatty? The seeds are full of oil but I thought the leaves were bulky but not very nutritious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't think rape leaves are fatty? The seeds are full of oil but I thought the leaves were bulky but not very nutritious. My thoughts too. At this time of year I am always set up just before the first pigeons arrive, i'm talking about on cover crops so got a very good idea what and how many are using the area. I would not take the gamble of doing this on a rape field, even on maize it starts to dry up by dinner at the moment with the mild weather. They let you shoot in cover crops??????????????? In January??????????????????? WOW lucky you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I think there are many factors which determines what food pigeons will feed on. The variety of other food (from acorn to berries, from seeds to clove), it's availability (as mentioned) the proximity to towns (and litter) all have an influence on their diet. Pigeons are known to be making trips of up to 40 Km to feed on what they like so, it's no surprise if a rape field is left untouched for months if something more appealing is somewhere close. On my perm, this year, no rape were touched since they got sown, they're all healthy and good looking for the joy of the sheeps Same goes for the time of the day: rape is a very fatty food so, there are chances that in a normal day (no snow, no freezing temperatures), if the field is in close proximity to the roosting place, a feed in the morning and one in the afternoon is sufficient. This will also explain in part why in some instances if you shoot pigeons on rape in the morning, they will disappear and not return till the afternoon... or not return at all. Rape, in my experience, are effective either when they're sown or in snowy/freezing condition when other food might be covered up and the shoots stand out, or when the birds need fat to keep warm. In all other conditions I found it kind of a hit and miss: many times I decoyed birds on rape whom had all but rape in their gull... showing that they only came in coz they'd seen the decoys, otherwise they would have not looked at the field at all. I presume you mean the seeds and not the leaves, the leaves contain no fat and are also slightly toxic and are of very little nutritional value to pigeons. Must say I have never shot any pigeons on a field of sown rape, or do you mean spring rape which can produce some very big bags in spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 i was told once that there are 2 basic varieties of rape.....one is high yield and palatable for birds and the other is low yield and unpalatable to birds... any truth in this or is it a load of old tosh............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 i was told once that there are 2 basic varieties of rape.....one is high yield and palatable for birds and the other is low yield and unpalatable to birds... any truth in this or is it a load of old tosh............... I was told some time ago that the one was domestic use and the other was industrial which had a purple tinge to the leaves which from our experience the birds are not keen on, this may be tosh also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 i was told once that there are 2 basic varieties of rape.....one is high yield and palatable for birds and the other is low yield and unpalatable to birds... any truth in this or is it a load of old tosh............... Don't know all the chemical compounds in each type but yes you are correct in saying there are two main types of rape. oilseed rape grown for edible consumption contains less than 2% erucic acid. Oilseed rape cultivated for industrial use still contains high levels of erucic acid (40-60%) Using genetic manipulation the breeders are striving to increase the level of erucic acid to 70-80% to maximise on its industrial potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 HHmmmmm...... ...might be some mileage in this topic.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 HHmmmmm...... ...might be some mileage in this topic.............. Seen the first few fields back the 80s I noticed the colour difference and ask the farmer why it looked different from the stuff he had sown in the past, he told me about the different types, if you wish to find out bit more, Google it, i am sure there is plenty of info on it. Yes as PC said pigeons are not keen on it because of its toxic content, it as killed wild life and farm stock in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 my mate has stopped growing beet and has a contract with mcdonalds to grow rape oil on virgin ground.....at the moment the birds are feeding on it (briefly)...but next door the rape has been grown for many years and the birds arnt touching that.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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