NickB65 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 SO I have been shooting .22 LR in the form of a CZ 452 for years and love the gun but get frustrated with the inability to take the longer shots. Yes I can sneak up closer but some of the ground is just too flat and open - typical Cambridgeshire. I have been reading a lot about how flat the trajectory is and how expensive the ammo is compared to the .22 LR but there has been a number of write ups from fellow shooters saying the accuracy goes after 50 shots due to fowling. Is this true? I appreciate a barrel may need to bed in with a few rounds but some of the write ups were from seasoned guns. I was thinking of going for a CZ 455 Varmint with a 16" barrel as they seem to be a popular gun and the build quality seems to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG6065 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Cracking round I would 100%. On a still day/night it's a wickedly accurate round and really knocks things over. I personally don't worry about the extra cost of ammo it's not massive and unless you're shooting 100's a week, does it really matter? I have a 22lr and only use it with nightvision now. Some people love the .17 some people hate it, but I definitely love it. The majority of people who are negative towards it, have never even owned one. Go for it! Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I've a 16" varmint cz 455 and love it. 3 years in and no problems after a few thousand rounds. £10:50 for 50 rounds don't worry me as I hit more than with a 22lr I have so save rounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It's good, fairly inexpensive. Can be affected quite badly by wind, but more so at distance (so don't try long shots when it's windy). It's not a reliable foxing round at all, anyone that says they've not had runners when using it is simply lying. I've had it and I've watched very good shots do it too. We've all come to the conclusion that for Charlie you need a bigger gun. Generally the hmr is point and shoot out to 100 yards, a great bunny getter. Head shots don't damage the carcass, body shots if its eradication, very effective. The ammunition can be a bit variable at times, best to buy a box of different types and try them all then if you find a good type go back and buy plenty, rather than a box at a time. It certainly doesn't exhibit the same tendency to ricochet like the 22lr,for that reason I got rid of the 22lr a long time ago. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 It's good, fairly inexpensive. Can be affected quite badly by wind, but more so at distance (so don't try long shots when it's windy). It's not a reliable foxing round at all, anyone that says they've not had runners when using it is simply lying. I've had it and I've watched very good shots do it too. We've all come to the conclusion that for Charlie you need a bigger gun. Generally the hmr is point and shoot out to 100 yards, a great bunny getter. Head shots don't damage the carcass, body shots if its eradication, very effective. The ammunition can be a bit variable at times, best to buy a box of different types and try them all then if you find a good type go back and buy plenty, rather than a box at a time. It certainly doesn't exhibit the same tendency to ricochet like the 22lr,for that reason I got rid of the 22lr a long time ago. That's it. This, except I didn't get rid of the 22 when I had the HMR. I also upgraded the HMR to a 17AH, but that was because my ranges were 100-200 rather than 125 and in. As a 25-125 yard bunny gun it takes a lot of beating. rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) 17HH is my next purchase, in time I think it will replace the hmr and, of course, I can reload for it. As I get through quite a few hmr during the year I can me becoming a dab hand at the little cartridge very quickly, albeit with quite a few cock-ups along the way. Edited February 10, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 As said, beyond 125 yards the slightest breeze will make accuracy unreliable. Although they will drop foxes, not ideal. For these reasons, I'm thinking about .22 hornet for when hmr is marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernel gadaffi Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 .22 hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) It's good, fairly inexpensive. Can be affected quite badly by wind, but more so at distance (so don't try long shots when it's windy). It's not a reliable foxing round at all, anyone that says they've not had runners when using it is simply lying. I've had it and I've watched very good shots do it too. We've all come to the conclusion that for Charlie you need a bigger gun. Generally the hmr is point and shoot out to 100 yards, a great bunny getter. Head shots don't damage the carcass, body shots if its eradication, very effective. The ammunition can be a bit variable at times, best to buy a box of different types and try them all then if you find a good type go back and buy plenty, rather than a box at a time. It certainly doesn't exhibit the same tendency to ricochet like the 22lr,for that reason I got rid of the 22lr a long time ago. That's it. It is less effected by the wind than .22lr. I'm not following what you are suggesting about it not being a reliable fox round. I find it a very satisfactory fox caliber if used within its limits, I would have to say anyone who says it isn't either can't shoot or is using it outside of its parameters. Anyone who has been shooting foxes for any time has had runners, whatever calibre they are using. Edited February 10, 2016 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) SO I have been shooting .22 LR in the form of a CZ 452 for years and love the gun but get frustrated with the inability to take the longer shots. Yes I can sneak up closer but some of the ground is just too flat and open - typical Cambridgeshire. I have been reading a lot about how flat the trajectory is and how expensive the ammo is compared to the .22 LR but there has been a number of write ups from fellow shooters saying the accuracy goes after 50 shots due to fowling. Is this true? I appreciate a barrel may need to bed in with a few rounds but some of the write ups were from seasoned guns. I was thinking of going for a CZ 455 Varmint with a 16" barrel as they seem to be a popular gun and the build quality seems to last. Its up to you if you want a 16" heavy barrel, why is beyond me, the light barrels are just as accurate for foxing, but there are those that like to cart around heavy lumps. The HMR has a tiny bore, it is difficult/tricky to clean, and you need to be careful. There are those that will suggest they never clean it and it works, and those that clean regularly and it works. One thing for sure, if you are going to clean it, clean it thoroughly and don't stop until it really is clean. I hear all to often people say, I cleaned it and it took 50 shots to get it back, that is BULL, they didn't clean it, they gave it a once over that raised fouling and left the bore worse than when they started. The HMR is accurate and does not have accuracy issues as a rule. In simple terms the HMR gives me double the usable range of a .22lr with subs, it is noisier and the ammo costs more. It is less prone to ricochet than the .22lr (but ensuring you hit your quarry considerably reduces .22lr ricochet chances anyway) and it is LESS effected by the wind than .22lr. http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rimfire.aspx select some .22lr and HMR yourself, hit compare and then check wind drift on the window that opens, you will find HMR better than .22lr! The HMR does have ammo issues so be mindful (look it up). I run a whole load of Air rifles, rimfires (.22lr, HMR, WMR), centrefires and shotguns. My HMR has a place for me and is a very useful tool in my cabinet! Edited February 10, 2016 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I had one for 5 years and it was a reliable vermin control calibre, great for crows out to 125 yds. In anything but a light breeze, forget it for smaller vermin much past 75 to 100 yds, it's too badly affected unless you can accurately call the wind to strike accurately at something with a one or two inch kill zone. By comparison, I have no problems accurately hitting any rabbit to 100 yds with the 22LR and once you know the POI for different ranges using a .22, it's no less accurate than HMR. I can reliably put up just as decent groups at 100 yds too with the .22LR. HMR is flat enough out to 140 or so, after which it drops off quite a lot. I zero'd mine to be about 3/4 inch high at 100 yds then just plonked the crosshair dead on from 50 to 140 yds. That's its maximum point blank range which will place a bullet within about an inch of point of aim depending on round and barrel length. It retains more striking energy than 22LR at those ranges which is one of its chief advantages but I would have never dreamed of shooting say a fox at over 100 uyds with one. They simply don't have the striking energy to guarantee a humane kill out past 100 yds on Charlie and I don't care who says what or about the claims of 150yd foxes using HMR...it's not on. That's where Hornet or CF rounds (.222, .223, 22-250) come into their own. Personally, if I wanted a 140 yd rifle for vermin control including taking 80 yd fox say, I'd probably stick with WMR. Cleaning regime-wise, they are a tiny calibre so it doesn't take much fouling to badly affect accuracy, at least that was certainly my experience. Mine needed thorough de-fouling including copper removal every 50 to 75 shots to retain accuracy. The barrel needs thorough cleaning and not just a pull through with a boresnake. I now use wipeout for all my rifles and it's a good shout if using HMR. I would avoid =using brass or bronze brushes and only use a nylon brush or patches. How do you know that copper fouling is becoming an issue? When cleaning's needed you'll notice because you'll not achieve a tight group until the barrel heats up with some shot strings of 5 shots or more, indicating slight barrel expansion with heat. Remove the fouling and it'll be bang on again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I've a 16" varmint cz 455 and love it. 3 years in and no problems after a few thousand rounds. £10:50 for 50 rounds don't worry me as I hit more than with a 22lr I have so save rounds You mean you actually hit things with you lr, lol don't remember you hitting much when you come to mine hehehe Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I would have to say anyone who says it isn't.. can't shoot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I now use wipeout for all my rifles and it's a good shout if using HMR. I would avoid Using brass or bronze brushes and only use a nylon brush or patches. +1 - I'll also add that carefully cleaning the crown is a wise move. I had mine start wandering off a while ago, so much so I started to lose a bit of faith in it. I bought some Patch-Out and Accelerator and followed the instructions and was amazed how much fouling came out. Followed by a careful but thorough cleaning off the crown and it's back on form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 You say it is less prone to ricochet how do you know the noise it makes you could not tell if it does or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 SO I have been shooting .22 LR in the form of a CZ 452 for years and love the gun but get frustrated with the inability to take the longer shots. Yes I can sneak up closer but some of the ground is just too flat and open - typical Cambridgeshire. I have been reading a lot about how flat the trajectory is and how expensive the ammo is compared to the .22 LR but there has been a number of write ups from fellow shooters saying the accuracy goes after 50 shots due to fowling. Is this true? I appreciate a barrel may need to bed in with a few rounds but some of the write ups were from seasoned guns. I was thinking of going for a CZ 455 Varmint with a 16" barrel as they seem to be a popular gun and the build quality seems to last. When you say inability to take longer shots, out of interest what range are you talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I have cz452 in 22lr and 17 hmr. 22lr is very accurate out well beyond 100 yards and still plenty poke for small vermin. I am very happy with both. 22lr is 16" standard barrel and a joy to carry around. HMR is 16" varmint and I would agree it is heavy to carry around. Mate has a 16" cz 17hmr style and it feels half the weight of mine. He is happy with his and bought it after using mine and seeing the performance on Crows and rabbits to 180 yards. I generally shoot from quadsticks so no problems with weight and it takes some beating for accuracy using these. I have not had a single runner with fox out to sensible range with hmr ( I am not lying) and only ever use a boresnake after maybe 50 shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 What's a sensible range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 What's a sensible range? up to 100 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxshooter69 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 As already said, has its place and has its purpose, don't push the boundaries and you have a fantastic round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 You mean you actually hit things with you lr, lol don't remember you hitting much when you come to mine hehehe Colin Oooooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I took a fox at 130 yards last summer but I was zeroing and it walked past my board like on a suicide mission lol so I had no excuses but most are 20-50 yards . I have 223 for further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 This ^^^ - I have managed to head shoot one at (a paced) 160 yards, at night. But this was more fluke than skill; I was also naiive about the capabilities of the rifle and in hindsight it was very unethical. Swap 243 for 223 and I'd pretty much say that's me; under 60 yards I'd chance it, but more often than not I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Loved mine until I found better things far better things at that Windy with poor terminals After. 22lr comes the small centrefires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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