Walker570 Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 I am pretty sure 410 non toxic loads are not available factory loaded, so as I will be needing a fair few this autumn/winter I am considering reloading. Any of you done this ? Shooting Fiocchi and RC 3 inch #6s at the moment for pheasant/partridge/pigeon/crow with good success out of 30 inch full choke Yilditz barrels. The new shoot I have joined for the 2016 season has about a 30% possibility of wild duck, various species in it's drives, all birds within 30yrds. I can use my 16 gauge but enjoy shooting the 410. Would appreciate your thoughts. Been insulted by professionals so don't hold back :-) Toying with a 19/20grm load #6 bismuth ? 3 inch shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 HW 19 or even HW 13 would work best in .410, but Bismuth will do the job so will copper through any gun choke. Steel you could load too the TPS wads will handle that shot and others but with stel you will have to be very conservative with ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Eley do do a bismuth 16g in 410 but not cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted April 23, 2016 Report Share Posted April 23, 2016 Eley do do a bismuth 16g in 410 but not cheap I was about to say this, they do a bismuth 16g 5 shot. They are over a quid each or £260 a slab though... Buy a thousand and they come in just under a grand from Just Cartridges - bargain! Would be cheaper to shoot lead and pay a fine when you get caught! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 Using steel will not actually limit your range by any factor other than fitting in the right workable weight If you were able to load an equal pellet count of say number 5 to lead the charge would kill but I can't say how that could be done I shot some home loaded biz on an evening flight with my 410 single and it was thrilling! Waiting for the perfect chance of a clean kill as mallard and teal came in ( nearly all shots I could have done fairly easy with the 12 auto) added so much The challenge. The restraint and the anticipation realy was thrilling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I can understand the challeng aspect Kent, i tried to set off one season using a 20 for everything, but it was short lived dont think i made it past the second week of september before i picked up a 12 or ten. If geese feature big in your ambitions, even with HW19 you will be passing off on a great many chances with a .410. But if you just shoot ducks into decoys you might just manage it with some load development and planning, but it will depend what you are doing and exactly where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I was about to say this, they do a bismuth 16g 5 shot. They are over a quid each or £260 a slab though... Buy a thousand and they come in just under a grand from Just Cartridges - bargain! Would be cheaper to shoot lead and pay a fine when you get caught! thats not an attitude that should be on a forum - you'd also get a criminal record and loose your cert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I think it will be a struggle - with steel the issue would be getting enough of bigger sized shot needed into a case to give a adequate pattern . HW13 would be effective but again you could only used a limited weight of it so the pattern would suffer I should think . As I do not reload 410 personally I do not know what sort of shot weight you could push without causing pressure issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) It's fitting the weight required. Number 5 steel wouldn't be an issue as for killing small to medium duck - heck even mallard and pintail if you shot well for the head The range will of course need to be 25 yards max and 15 better The issue is on equal pellet counts with 5 shot in lead there isn't a workable way of driving the light in total weight payload safely or effectively I should think anything supersonic would work if you could at short range Of course this is theory based on shooting with a fowler who shoots steel clay loads at decoyed duck. Edited April 24, 2016 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I was about to say this, they do a bismuth 16g 5 shot. They are over a quid each or £260 a slab though... Buy a thousand and they come in just under a grand from Just Cartridges - bargain! Would be cheaper to shoot lead and pay a fine when you get caught! We need to totally loose this attitude even in jest. I was brought up not to grass but I will 100% report any I find using lead against the law It effects all of shooting - that's too big a cost and we will loose all lead full stop bullets the works - if fools don't come in line. What else can be done to get compliance at the end if the day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) I will make enquiries on the Eley Bismuth because even reloading when you take into account the purchase of all the kit it works out at as much if not more. In the overall cost of 20 plus driven days a year the cost of cartridges to me is not something I think about. I will try and source a box of Eley and do some pattern testing etc., I have been at it long enough(6 decades) to know the limits of my gun/range etc. I have no time whatsoever for the shooting of pheasants out to 80yrds. How many of those get a #4 shot and carry on un picked. An interesting article on heavy loads versus light loads in 410s in particular indicated that a relatively light load, say the 16gr Eley had a higher mz vel and consequently a better chance of penetration. I will set up some wet newsprint and see what penetration I get at 30yrds/25yrds/20yrds with those Eley's. Watch this space. Many thanks for your contributions and I took the 'lead' comment as given 'tongue in cheek'. I have no truck whatsoever with breaking laws regardless of how stupid. Edited April 24, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I think it will be a struggle - with steel the issue would be getting enough of bigger sized shot needed into a case to give a adequate pattern . HW13 would be effective but again you could only used a limited weight of it so the pattern would suffer I should think . As I do not reload 410 personally I do not know what sort of shot weight you could push without causing pressure issues. HW 19 would be better but if you went for 7s in HW13 should be ok, but with HW19 you could go 9s and lose out on nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I think 9 in steel is just too small for fowl it would have to be some of the high cost very toxic non toxic other heavy metals on the market under the banner non toxic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 I think 9 in steel is just too small for fowl it would have to be some of the high cost very toxic non toxic other heavy metals on the market under the banner non toxic You been at the sherry again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatsanmad Posted April 24, 2016 Report Share Posted April 24, 2016 The bpi status of steel book has load data for 410 steel loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lksopener Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Have you got a link to said book pal as my friend is looking to reload some .410 steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Bpi list 100 gr loads for steel shot in thier small bore manual They use number 6 steel 800x Blue dot Hs6 Longshot Universal clays And 2 1/2 " cases Not really field effective imo Speeds are 1600 fps up Pressures 9600- 11700 psi There are notes on barrel damage being far more likely than in the larger bores If your going to load for fowl I don't recon steel is even a starter I know two guys who have done ok with tungsten matrix and I liked bismouth - but steel mm? Yes it is grains of shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Copper would be better on bore damage and you could send it at steel speeds, but its still lightweight shot for a .410. To get the best performance from a .410 you need HW 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Eley not now producing the 410 Bismuth but I did manage to secure 125 from Just Cartridges, their last few boxes. They might just see me through next season then I am into reloading, so plenty of time to research and experiment. I shoot bismuth through my 16 gauge and of course 12 gauge and have had good results but I only shoot at sensible ranges anyway. I think that is the key to non toxic other than maybe the Heavy stuff. If I want target practise at long range I go and shoot at clays. Many thanks for the info. At over a £ a shot I'm not going to do much testing but I will try some Eley in some wet newsprint and see how it patterns. Edited April 26, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 in my honest opinion, i would reload "nice shot" . it is a "reload like lead" nontoxic and performs like lead.(well - near enough.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 (edited) Well, Just Cartridges came good and delivered 125 Eley Bismuth to my door this afternoon. I splashed out and used two to do a non scientific testest. Measured precisely 27mtrs(88ft) as near 30yrds as needs be. Put a 3/8 ply board up with a sheet of 30x30 paper on it and fired the first shot. The pattern was thin but the small outline of the breast and head of a duck received three hits with the #5s. Now 3 hits with #5s on a duck should be good enough. Skinned many a pheasant with not a mark on them, not even teeth marks. The big deal at 30yrds was penetration, so I got a bunch of newsprint and soaked it then rolled it to a thickness that when flattened it was 10 inches by 4 inches and 3/4inch thick. I slid this behind the paper into the centre and walked back and fired another shot .. both shots off hand .. The pattern from the second shell appeared to be a little better and on checking the wet paper found that at least seven pellets had totally passed through and had sufficient force to bury themselves into the hard ply to the depth of the pellet. My feelings is that put this load in the right place up to 30yrds and it will cleanly kill ducks. 30yrds is a lot further than many of us estimate when we take shots. Shooting twenty odd days of driven birds through the season I estimate that the average distance is closer to twenty yards. The downside ? ? ? I have to wait until October before I can put them into practise :-( Edited April 27, 2016 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propercartridges Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I am pretty sure 410 non toxic loads are not available factory loaded, so as I will be needing a fair few this autumn/winter I am considering reloading. Any of you done this ? Shooting Fiocchi and RC 3 inch #6s at the moment for pheasant/partridge/pigeon/crow with good success out of 30 inch full choke Yilditz barrels. The new shoot I have joined for the 2016 season has about a 30% possibility of wild duck, various species in it's drives, all birds within 30yrds. I can use my 16 gauge but enjoy shooting the 410. Would appreciate your thoughts. Been insulted by professionals so don't hold back :-) Toying with a 19/20grm load #6 bismuth ? 3 inch shell mr walker what powder are you using thanks george Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I have not started to reload as yet but the fact that Eley have stopped making factory looks like I am going to have to start. I'll probably start with Lilgun or the 410 powder and start from there, but lots of work to do thinking through it before then. Will use the Eley cases from this 125 to start with. I have some #5 Lylevale which I use for pigeons and will also use their cases. Bopth roll turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 thats not an attitude that should be on a forum - you'd also get a criminal record and loose your cert It was clearly a joke - but I guess that is lost on some types on here I support the law on lead but anyone daft enough to pay a grand per 1000 for 410 cartridges when you could just use a different bore needs their head examining in my opinion. You could buy a decent reloading setup and make up something yourself all-in for less than that. But hey, that's up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) No .410 guru, but just stareted reloading with an home made RTO tool, and have had a mate crimp me a few loads down in lincolnshire. This is a nice patterning load will post up a picture or two at some point. CHEDITE .410 3 INCH CX2000 1& GRAINS VECTAN SP3 GAS CHECK 3MM CORK 4MM WHITE FELT FIBRE WAD TOP CARD AS A UNDER SHOT CARD AND MAYLAR WRAP.188 GRAINS OF PURE COPPER 6S OR 3S 8 GRAINS OF BUFFER 6 POINT CRIMP. 10780 PSI 1430FPS AT 9 FOOT. Edited May 9, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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