223 or 22-250???

[Phil9]

I'm in a pickle,, I'm putting in a variation to swap my 22rf for either a 223 or 22-250,, but really can't decide.. Iv done loads of reading up on both calibers,, and there doesn't seem to much difference. I will be useing them for longer range fox and rabbit that my hmr just can't get at!! As the foxes mainly have come to wary of the lamp and won't come in close enough to take a safe clean shot,, not only that I have just recently got a new permission,, a quite hilly farm with plenty of good back stops available, 55acres., what advice do u guys have. Thanks Phil

[Fisheruk]

I would favour .223. I have a Tikka T3 which likes PPU and at £10 per box you cannot go wrong. Both calibers would do.

[foosa]

Both will kill fox and rabbit out to whatever range you are accurate with them, usually under 200 yards if lamping so no trajectory issues with one over the other, both will make quite a mess of whatever they hit, 22-250 will mean picking more bits of dead creature up but still just as dead as if hit by the .223. 22-250 burns more powder and makes a bigger boom but will get the bullet from the muzzle to the target a fraction quicker, not that you need it as I've never had a fox move out the way of an incoming .223 round, so really it won't make much difference to the end result of dead fox/rabbit as both will do the job.

[TONY R]

.22250 i can not say enough good things about them, i am on my third now in 40 years of using them, for a 22 cf i have had several, only the ,22243 middlestead turned my head away from the .22250, but eventualy the realisation the .22250 could do all i ever wanted, had me buying a new tikka 595 which i still have over a decade latter.

Once was told by an old game keeper friend in scotland you can download a .22250 to .223 speeds but you can not load up a .223 to .22250 speeds. And i will add to that if you dont think you will ever need that extra performance the .22250 offers it will hit you even harder when it dawns on you that you acctualy do need it.

[welshwarrior]

Lamping my preferred set up is 222 so 223a little quiter and at these ranges no real difference.

 

My 22-225 was set up for longer range day time work but only show a slight advantage over 250-300 yards plus.

 

Not that much in either I'd look at ammo supply locally and go for the greatest choice or buy the rifle I prefer in either chambering.

[foosa]

.22250 i can not say enough good things about them, i am on my third now in 40 years of using them, for a 22 cf i have had several, only the ,22243 middlestead turned my head away from the .22250, but eventualy the realisation the .22250 could do all i ever wanted, had me buying a new tikka 595 which i still have over a decade latter.

Once was told by an old game keeper friend in scotland you can download a .22250 to .223 speeds but you can not load up a .223 to .22250 speeds. And i will add to that if you dont think you will ever need that extra performance the .22250 offers it will hit you even harder when it dawns on you that you acctualy do need it.

Interesting view on the 22-250, is the extra performance of the 250 needed because the 223 isn't up to the job stopping foxes in their tracks out to 22-250 distances when lamping? As for speed, I have yet to see anything move out the way of a 223 bullet once out the barrel.

[scotslad]

Must asdmit i'm with foosa, the actual difference between the 2 is tiny and i bet if u gave most both rifles they could hardly tell the difference.

 

I'd go for wots most readily available 2nd hand in ur area + ammo availability. And by same token i'd throw the 222 in too if more readily available in ur area, again very little difference in performance.

The 22.250 does use a bit more powder thou so will be dearer for bullets even if u reload.

 

I doubt u have really shot many foxes with ur 22.250 that u would of missed with a 223. Bth excelent calibres for foxes

 

The only time the 22.250 has any real advantage is for use on the hill shooting red hinds (which is totally illegal anyway) and potentailly a tiny advantage on roe (in scotland) but again generally fall over pretty good with the 223 or 222. If ur shot placement is poor enough not to kill it with a 223 i doubt the extra energy of a 22.250 will make any difference.

But most of the pro stalkers i know on Roe (with no reds) tend to shoot 222/223 if shooting a 22cf.

 

But like a ot of things in shooting many folk have there favourites that work for them and swear by them, while sommeone else taking exact same shots/quarry/job will swear by a different combo and slag the last 1 off.

But truth is both usually are as good as each other and difference is tiny and not noticable unless ur a very very good shot, best advice is to get out and practice with wot ever combo u go for

[CharlieT]

An accurate rifle with good glass, that YOU have confidence in, is more important than caliber.

[TONY R]

Any CF any size will kill like deer rabbits foxes whatever, dead and as you cant get deader than dead its all pretty accademic one against the other.

But quite how the the various chamberings handle the task regarding pressure accuracy velocity etc is what makes things interesting, and when some rounds start to show features that are a bit special.

So once we have that out the way, back to the .22250 on .223 debate,.

Speed is an all too oft debated subject, its shunned by most advocates of the .223, yet give them the why not a .222 rem then they will soon be singing the .223 speed advantage song.

Speed is needed it means at a longer range any given bullet will get a better chance to expand as it was designed to.

If you dont feel you need the higher velocity the .22250 is capable of and you are content with the narower vperformance spectrum of the .223 then fine go with that, it will kill for you but then again so will a .22 magnum rimfire or a hornet its all about acceptable compromise.

Terminal distruction is good enough reason to opt for the .22250 over the .223, i shoot regularly with a mate who has a .223 and the most distructive bullets we have found are taipan 50 sps the extra fps and subbsequent effect of the .22250 is there to be seen on flesh feather fur and bone. .

The .223 is a capable chambering and it will do vertualy anytrhing expected of a .22 cf rifle, but the .22250 has more available performance should you feel you need it.

Edited May 2, 2016 by TONY R

[Scrumbag]

223 would be my vote. Easy to feed, longer barrel life. With a 50 or a 40gr bullet very flat shooting.

 

Scrummy

[figgy]

I know your asking about 223 or 22-250 but if you reload your own bullets and go for 243 you can then shoot whatever quarry you want when your out after foxes. Plenty of bullet weights to suit your needs.

 

Friends of mine have ditched there 223 for 243 as dead is dead and you can't get any more dead than dead.

[TONY R]

223 would be my vote. Easy to feed, longer barrel life. With a 50 or a 40gr bullet very flat shooting.

 

Scrummy

The barrel life aspect is minimal very minimal and the 1 in 14 twist rate most .22250s have will produce similar chamber throt pressures to the 1 in 12 and tighter .223 barrels generaly encountered, so without we are talking custom barrels its not really a factor between these two.

Flat shooting... Again the .22250 wins hands down. Ecconomy yes the .223 uses around 7 grains less powder so roughly 260 rounds loaded at max compared to the .22250s 200 to the pound, bullet heads are the same primers vertualy the same etc, but technicaly the .223 wins here, but it cant do what the .22250 can do if you want it to do it or not, But you can download the .22250 to .223 performance use less powder and it can be just as ecconomical.

The .223 is quite an efficient case but its just not as versatile as the .22250.

[Konnie]

Sorry to intrude, is the 223 a quieter rifle than 22250 if both were moderated, as am interested in thread but my shooting area contains houses.

[TONY R]

Moderators are just that they moderate, i have a ace ultra s5 on my .22250 and my mate has a reflex T8 on the .223 mine is slightly louder but not much in it, you can still hear both of them. Unmoderated i doubt you could tell the difference even with a decibel meeter, they just sound like what they are then a pair of unmoderated rifles.

[foosa]

Well at the end of the day I figure they are both capable foxing calibers, no one buys a 22250 to download it to .223 levels otherwise they would just buy a .223, the 22250 is a seriously speedy round and that is a requirement for effective bullet frag and flat trajectory, as well as dead is dead the 22250 does take it a bit further and as well as dead it turns fox into chunks! I've used both calibers and have never found the .223 lacking the speed to smash up a bullet and found the trajectory ok for foxing, but that's me and what I'm happy with. The 22250 does offer more speed/energy but I've never needed it on the few fox I stumble across. Oh yeah and they both make quite a bang when they go off!

[TONY R]

Try a 55 game king in your .223 then put the same bullet in a .22250 load them both up there, and then tell me whiuch expanded properly on a fox, the extra 200 fps or so gives it the edge , frangible bullets like Taipans berger MEFs will expand but the .22250 works better on the more constructed bullets.

Downloading happens i do it for crows in the .22250 with 35 V maxes accuracy is good and the 35s explosive saves on powder too.

Used to cast and swage my own bullets for the .22250 years ago, was very satisfying producing your own jacketed bullets, and they were pretty accurate too. The .22250 case style and volume is very suited to downloading, for cast bullets as well, again another aspect some people simply either dont know about or care to do.

[foosa]

I use 55 v max in the 223, always expand,always fragment and always kills a fox hit in the chest. Simple and no need for more, if I wanted more I'd use me .243 with 75 v max and make a hell of a mess! But not needed really is it.

[TONY R]

Point is the .22250 can do that job with 55 game kings and they work well enough for fox or Roe if you want. As for .243 75 v maxes well if you want to play the trumps game anyone can up it with whatever i mean its not really what this debate is about, its between two .22s and the biggest one has the edge there is nothing su[rising about that.

Edited May 2, 2016 by TONY R

[Konnie]

Moderators are just that they moderate, i have a ace ultra s5 on my .22250 and my mate has a reflex T8 on the .223 mine is slightly louder but not much in it, you can still hear both of them. Unmoderated i doubt you could tell the difference even with a decibel meeter, they just sound like what they are then a pair of unmoderated rifles.

[foosa]

I agree, anyone can up it with whatever but they are not really foxing calibers are they? I think I must have missed the point here as I don't remember anyone asking about using game kings in either calibre or using them to shoot roe, the op asked about shooting fox and rabbit under a lamp, I would have expected him to use a varmint bullet designed to break up easily on impact instead of a more heavily constructed one.

[Vince Green]

The only real issue is availability of ammo in your area I would say. .223 probably wins that one.

 

If you do go for .223 ask for .223/5.56mm on your variation.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Vince Green

[scotslad]

U could argue about this all day but in real practical terms most shooters would never actually notice the difference between the 2, and i'd bet u could throw in the 222 as well with no real difference in performance.

All would do wot u want no problems

 

If the 22.250 was as good as u make out everyone would use it instead of other 22cf calibres. They're all great foxing/roe rifes

I'd just ask around local gunshops for ammo prices and availability and 2nd hand rifles if ur after a 2nd hand, and go which wot ever caliber is most popular locally

 

 

 

If u'd potentially ilke to prgress on to deer if present on ground a 243 might be more future proof, but opens another can of worms about other similar sized rifles

Edited May 3, 2016 by scotslad

[TONY R]

I agree, anyone can up it with whatever but they are not really foxing calibers are they? I think I must have missed the point here as I don't remember anyone asking about using game kings in either calibre or using them to shoot roe, the op asked about shooting fox and rabbit under a lamp, I would have expected him to use a varmint bullet designed to break up easily on impact instead of a more heavily constructed one.

.22250 is faster flater shooting and just as accurate, 200fps extra velocity is not to be ignored at long range, the OP Said he had a hmr but wanted a .22 cf for long range and was undecided, i gave him my opinion and good reasons why the .22250 is better at long range than a .223. Re the Game King55 , i use them to harvest pelts , the op might just want to do the same, and at long range the .22250 can still have enough speed to let them work well.

[malkiserow]

There is some good info in here, depending on what the OP wants to do in the future beyond the foxes mentioned such as deer etc, then it may be worth thinking about a .243 now as it will do exactly what you want on foxes and so much (deer legal) more in a way the .22 250 cannot.

 

If the OP has designs on deer in the future he may want to go 22 250 or .223 now as a "dedicated" or mostly fox gun and get something much bigger for deer in the future? A .243 is a worthy contender if a "cover both options" rifle is needed.

[foosa]

Ok got to be honest, I've never used 55 game kings in a 22cf, do they mushroom and punch through cleanly or do they smash up and fragment?