Doctors fees for SGC - and extra £20!

[danro]

Hi All

I'm lucky enough to have a SGC and recently it was up for renewal.

I applied a good 3-4 months in advance, as I was kindly advised by letter that it would be at least 8 weeks.

Two and a half weeks ago my renewal arrived, just days before the expiration of the old one... Result!

 

Today, I get a phone call from my GP surgery. They are wanting to bill me £20 for completing some "new paperwork" associated with my SGC application.

The girl was very cagey, lots of "ummms" and and "errs" in the spiel she gave. Apparently I should have been notified by the Police of this charge... But I have heard nothing and physically have the renewal.

 

Has anyone else heard of this?

I've asked for it all to be put into writing, including the paperwork from the police telling them to chase me, and for them to post it to me as I didn't believe them, which seemed to upset the girl profusely :-)

 

I will be interest to hear form you all.

 

Thanks
Danro

[Scully]

If it isn't enforceable then I wouldn't pay it.

[robbiep]

There is an old thread on this. The system changed on April 1st this year (I think) regarding making it clear as to who is liable for the fee and under which circumstances you, or the police, are liable to pay.

 

However, as your application date was before the change, then you will most likely be liable for the fee. If you refuse, then the GP could well decline to fill in the paperwork.

 

EDIT : just read it fully, and you've already got the new ticket.

So up to you whether you want to tell them to get stuffed or not. But do remember you'll want another renewal in 5 years !

Edited May 16, 2016 by robbiep

[Lloyd90]

Like any business, should you not pay, would the doctors not put a charge against you and get bailiffs involved etc or not ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Pay the £20 and be glad it is all done and sorted!

[Wb123]

The bigger picture here is fears in GP land re liability. If they are expected to take the risk dump with no payment they may well stop answering requests from the police, im not sure that is conducive to getting new grants or renewals efficiently for you or anyone else in the area.

 

Certainly where i work at present the partners are looking to set up a no pay no response approach to the letters from the police, we get two or three requests a week.

[bluesj]

If it was for an HGV license you would have to pay

[Andy H]

Same here Last week i also received my new certificates and today a letter appears from my doctors practice asking for £25.

[Scully]

If it was for an HGV license you would have to pay

 

Totally irrelevant.

The advice regarding this is very clear; if the applicant discloses a medical condition worthy of a detailed explanation then they pay. If not, then they don't. This sounds like the licensing authority have sought ( and achieved ) a GP's report where none was justified nor necessary and not only haven't informed the applicant but appear to have misled the GP as to how the process involved works. The only explanation is that both posters who say they have been billed above, both have cause to submit further details regarding their medical history, but that still doesn't explain why they have been billed post grant.

I've never heard of a GP's practice trying to recoup the cost of a report after the ticket has been granted.

It needs sorting either way.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Scully

[Scully]

The bigger picture here is fears in GP land re liability. If they are expected to take the risk dump with no payment they may well stop answering requests from the police, im not sure that is conducive to getting new grants or renewals efficiently for you or anyone else in the area.

 

Certainly where i work at present the partners are looking to set up a no pay no response approach to the letters from the police, we get two or three requests a week.

I'm not really sure how a fee would offset the risk of being held liable. GP's seek payment for their time and for no other reason.

Unless I'm mistaken ACPO and the BMA held lengthy discussions some time ago as to the part GP's would play in the licensing procedure and sought assurances that their role would not leave them liable. After all, GP's are GP's and not psychologists and can only make a decision based on an applicants past medical history and no further than the time of application.

[Scully]

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Scully

[CharlieT]

 

Totally irrelevant.

The advice regarding this is very clear; if the applicant discloses a medical condition worthy of a detailed explanation then they pay. If not, then they don't. This sounds like the licensing authority have sought ( and achieved ) a GP's report where none was justified nor necessary and not only haven't informed the applicant but appear to have misled the GP as to how the process involved works.

I've never heard of a GP's practice trying to recoup the cost of a report after the ticket has been granted.

It needs sorting either way.

 

Not quite correct.

 

This will not be a full blown request for a medical report, rather it will be the police following the new protocol where they, the police, now write to every applicant GP after issue requesting the GP to put an enduring firearms marker on the patient record and confirm to the police that the applicant (ie the patient) does not suffer from any of the prescribed conditions.

 

See............http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/firearms

[Scully]

 

Not quite correct.

 

This will not be a full blown request for a medical report, rather it will be the police following the new protocol where they, the police, now write to every applicant GP after issue requesting the GP to put an enduring firearms marker on the patient record and confirm to the police that the applicant (ie the patient) does not suffer from any of the prescribed conditions.

 

See............http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/firearms

 

Well there you go then; it's a charge for adding a 'marker' to your medical report; I'm assuming on top of the charge already paid by those who need to submit further details. Thanks CT.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Scully

[oowee]

Unfortunately the Home Office removed this helpful advice in their latest guidance to firearms law despite BASC objections. The Home Office no longer offers any ”guidance” on this matter – it is silent. The Association of Chief Police Officers’ advice is to encourage a nationally consistent approach to the requesting of medical reports associated with applications. The decision to request additional medical information from an applicant’s GP should only be made following a risk assessment and be proportionate to any concerns that have been raised. There should not be a blanket policy of requesting medical reports simply because a declaration has been made. They do however recommend that where a medical report is considered proportionate, that the applicant be written to making them aware and putting the onus on the applicant to pay for and provide a report from their GP.

[Scully]

I wonder how much I'll be charged for the word 'No' in response to the police question of 'Has the applicant suffered from any of the issues listed below in the last 5 years?'

[oowee]

This is from BASC.

[robbiep]

This is from BASC.

Irrelevant

 

As I said in my first reply, that only came in on 1st April.

The OP's renewal application went in before that date, so that does not apply. As such, it comes under the random whim of what a GP and police force have decided. Which may or may not be the same as the advice there, or may not even have anythng decided, and be done on a case-by-case basis.

[mossy835]

Pay the £20 and be glad it is all done and sorted!

+1

[CharlieT]

I wonder how much I'll be charged for the word 'No' in response to the police question of 'Has the applicant suffered from any of the issues listed below in the last 5 years?'

 

As mine is in for renewal now, I wait with interest to see what my GP does.

 

You will have noticed on the BMA link that their advice to GP's is " "We would advise GPs to seek confirmation from the patient that they are in agreement to pay a fee before undertaking the work so not to cause additional confusion or delay."

 

Should my GP decide to make a charge, for what is in effect a tick box exercise, I am minded to advise him that I will not accept it and instruct him to advise the police accordingly.

 

From my reading and understanding it was never expected that GP's would make a charge for this, unlike when the police approach them for a medical report. My view is that if the Police/Home Office require markers be put on our medical file then the cost should be met by the police and any cost involved be reflected in the FAC/SGC application/renewal fee, not an add hoc fee at the discression of GP's. Whilst some posters have stated it's only £20/25 but that amount as a persentage of my £65 renewal fee is unacceptable when every certificate holder is likely to receive such a bill.

 

Seems to me that this initiative was never really thought through.

 

 

Unfortunately the Home Office removed this helpful advice in their latest guidance to firearms law despite BASC objections. The Home Office no longer offers any ”guidance” on this matter – it is silent. The Association of Chief Police Officers’ advice is to encourage a nationally consistent approach to the requesting of medical reports associated with applications. The decision to request additional medical information from an applicant’s GP should only be made following a risk assessment and be proportionate to any concerns that have been raised. There should not be a blanket policy of requesting medical reports simply because a declaration has been made. They do however recommend that where a medical report is considered proportionate, that the applicant be written to making them aware and putting the onus on the applicant to pay for and provide a report from their GP.

 

But this is not a request for a medical report. See my link.

[Andy H]

My application went in on the 20th april and on the feo visit she wrote in the paperwork no doctors letter required , My tickets arrived on the 8th may and today 16th may the practice money wanted letter arrived.

I have no medical conditions and i have not had to see the doc since jan 2000

Edited May 16, 2016 by Andy H

[danro]

Hi Chaps and Chapesses.

 

Thanks for your replies

 

I've been doing a little digging and discovered this, which makes perfect sense, but was not done.

http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/pay-fees-allowances/fees/organising-your-finances/agreeing-fees-in-advance

 

Then I found this, and considering I have had my renewal, I would expect there was very little to report as I have only seen my GP to get beta blockers and water tablets re issued over the last 5 years..

http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/firearms

 

..which has this lower down
http://www.bma.org.uk/support-at-work/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/firearms#fees

 

That is generally covered in the first option, a tick box of less than a dozen questions. - a Max of 5 minutes work.

My renewal documentation never mentioned additional Doctors Fees and the "Firearm reminder" on my records is probably against Data Protection and not something I desire, so I will be insisting it is removed.

 

I'm feeling like they have shut the gate after the horse has bolted. I could have refused or challenged the fee IF I had known about it, but they have not allowed me that choice.

The BMA is suggesting it is not really a billable request as there is nothing to report and the job is done with or without the payment. The fact they are asking for it well after the 21 days their own documentation allows just adds insult to injury.

 

I'm in half a mind to respond with a "yes that is fine - £20 for 5 minutes of your work... but you will agree to me billing you at the same rate for sitting in your waiting room when I have an appointment and you are late..."
We shall see how it pans out.

Cheers

 

Danny

[rbrowning2]

This will get out of control, I do not see why I should pay for some flag on my records that I neither want or need if the powers that be want such a system to monitor my health then they should pay. It will become a postcode lottery on how much you pay be that £20 or possible £100 who's says how much the doctor can charge. £20 pay up and shut up but will you feel the same when it is £100?

 

All getting very silly, we should all pay the same fee direct to the police and any costs in obtaining medical information should be included as not every application will require it so it should even out across the thousands of applications.

[bluesj]

It seams strange to me that so many people begrudge a £20 ish pound fee for a doctor to fill in a form for them, try getting a solicitor to Write a letter explaining why you should not pay for £20 or a garage to check the fan belt on your car, my doctor would have no option but to get my records out and have a look as I've never meet him.

That said as for the op I would ask for a copy of what was sent to the police and what the fee is for If it is just to ad a comment in your notes to say your are a fac/sgc holder I would tell them to send it to the police

This will get out of control, I do not see why I should pay for some flag on my records that I neither want or need if the powers that be want such a system to monitor my health then they should pay. It will become a postcode lottery on how much you pay be that £20 or possible £100 who's says how much the doctor can charge. £20 pay up and shut up but will you feel the same when it is £100?

All getting very silly, we should all pay the same fee direct to the police and any costs in obtaining medical information should be included as not every application will require it so it should even out across the thousands of applications.

[rbrowning2]

But the problem will be it won't stop at £20 it will be what ever the doctor wants £20 today. £200 in a few years once they see it as a cash cow.

[robbietherimmer]

Don't see why you shouldn't have to pay a fee to the doctor if they've to take time out of their busy enough day to fill in your paperwork. £20 is nowt so just pay up and move on