rimfire4969 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I know this has been done but I am still looking for a way forward, the the old who does what on a shoot. Work parties, we have 10 guns and some of us are up the shoot very often to get the work done. I think there are 3 maybe 4 guns who have made one or two work parties because work and life is getting in the way. These are people who will never miss a shoot day. A fine for not doing work parties would be perfect to them and they would rather pay a fine than do the work. I would like to see one work party equals one shoot day. Nine work parties you only shoot nine days. But getting this introduced is not easy as the worse culprits are two guys who started the shoot and are the shoot captain and treasurer. I feel a very exciting agm coming on. Any other ways shoots use to get the work done fairly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1440 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Up the fines.. or give a discount per worling day off the syndicate fees. Its a difficult one though.. It might be that someone has to cover every other Saturday or working day at work or for family to be able to attend the Shooting day and I guess thats why they are in a syndicate in the first place. If they're down the pub thats different. Try suggesting that they go for a Half syndicate place to give them time to also commit to the working party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I have been involved in syndicates that have implemented various ways to try to get everyone to do their fair share. Knocking days shooting for non attendance of work parties will be very unforgiving and could cause the syndicate to fold. However if implemented right, with a set amount of work parties stated from the beginning, with dates and times also set, then everyone will know where they stand. Another syndicate I was involved with implemented a fine system. The work parties dates were set and if you didn't attend, you were fined the same amount as a days shooting. The money went back into the shoot for more birds and/or towards a Christmas party. Either way, you will not be popular for suggesting these work party incentives and be prepared for alot of flack. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1440 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Agree with Shoot.. Be careful with the guys you said set the shoot up.. They may spend a good amount of time in the background dealing with landowners, feed deliverys etc and the finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Agreed, there is a huge amount of admin behind the scenes before any work parties can even start! Punishing people financially is likely to cause resentment and make people even less willing to help. I have to work every other weekend so quite often will be on the shoot in the evenings until dark, i broadcast my covers last year by the tractor headlights! So it might be worth organising some after work weekday work parties, but some people are just lazy and you will have take comfort in the fact that you have done your share and the shoot is working thanks to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Our work party dates are put out there at the end of the previous season, so months in advance. I like everyone else has commitments. I own my own business and have a family with 3 children. One of my commitments is the shoot. If I can't make a work party I find the time in the evening or another day. I am often there till dark. It's the people who think their time is more important than mine that get me. I have been chatting with the farmer who owns the land and is part of the syndicate and he is the final word in everything, what we don't want is the people doing the work getting ****** off and in his words it's time to **** off the non workers. Edited June 26, 2016 by rimfire4969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 What do you find to do with all those work parties?!? The best way would be to find the core of folk who are both keen and importantly available to do the work. They do the work and get a discount from the subs for such, or get sole access to any extras that are available, deer stalking, pigeon shooting, rabbiting etc. Got to be much easier than trying to get everyone to do there 'bit' and penalising the if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 hello, i am still looking to join a small shoot down here and helping the keeper is all part of shooting, i am retired and can understand those with family commitments but just to pay and shoot is not the way to go unless it is a bought day. i hope you get sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The biggest downfall of a syndicate shoot is work party's , do your bit let all else go over your head and enjoy your season . If unable to do that leave and just buy the odd days here and there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrol Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Very good idea re work party attendance to shoot days attendance It's unfortunately same old same old 1 work party I was on recently one of the guns turned up with his kids who got in the way when using the saws and strimmers he didn't do a stroke just walked around and done absolutely nothing all morning You got a know when your beat. Lol Patrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Very good idea re work party attendance to shoot days attendance It's unfortunately same old same old 1 work party I was on recently one of the guns turned up with his kids who got in the way when using the saws and strimmers he didn't do a stroke just walked around and done absolutely nothing all morning You got a know when your beat. Lol Patrol **** me i would of had some shooting last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennett Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Haha me too! Edited June 26, 2016 by kennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 i Think almost every shoot has the same problem, and to be honest there is no real solution. I find if i have 3-6 lads on a work party is plenty to keep them all working but even then it is not unheard off to check there work and its been only half done , done half ***** or wrong so u have to redo it anyway. The problem with fines is normally fines are not steep enough to make a difference, most SE boys would be far better paying the fines and going to work instead. Also not everyone is equal, u could have a really decent handy/tradesperson who works hard and does the job right the same as somoen who just comes late has a blether and goes home early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footu Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 the best ive seen is a work list is organised at the agm/egm. people elect to take jobs from the list or take care of a particular drive. if the jobs not done, finger pointing is easy and people know they are at fault so try better in future. also be aware that some jobs, foxing, dogging in, feed get done by some members more regularly than others, who then rightly feel that they shouldnt have to take the biggest burdens on work parties as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 the best ive seen is a work list is organised at the agm/egm. people elect to take jobs from the list or take care of a particular drive. if the jobs not done, finger pointing is easy and people know they are at fault so try better in future. also be aware that some jobs, foxing, dogging in, feed get done by some members more regularly than others, who then rightly feel that they shouldnt have to take the biggest burdens on work parties as well. This could be a way forward for next season. Unfortunately dogging in and feed etc are also done by the ones who do the work. I have just seen that one person has not been to a single work party and that is unfair because I am very sure all the important stuff he has to do when work parties are on will not be nessersary on shoot days. This season we had a fair bit to do including building a new pen, clearing some new stands in a wood, building duck pens as well as general maintenance as well as sorting a fair amount of cover crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 How about having to provide a substitute worker instead of a fine? if the offenders have so much money. Curtail guest days if you have them. Just fines means you end up with a finance rich but worker poor shoot.Yes lazy guns always seem to find time on shoot days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrol Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm quite likened to the " don't turn up for a work party then don't turn up for a shoot day. I reckon it would work on a majority of the guns, yep you will get the stalwarts who will thwart at the first hurdle by stating "I pays me money" so I should shoot every day in all honesty you can do without em. The wish. A full bunch of safe, sociable shooters, who love work parties there's always two three in each syndicate, so why can't you ever get a full team of decent people ?? I bet there would be such a team if carlsberg run a shoot ( lol) Cheers Patrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thats why on only do driven days got feed up of doing work partys.ten in shoot only 5 of us done the work when somethink went wrong they where the first to start moaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I would really just have a few dedicated workers...co-keepers if you like, and let them have additional benefits. Getting the full compliement of syndicate members to participate in work parties is a waste of time and causes uneeded grief to all those involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 I don't know the answer to this one to be honest. There are eight guns in our rough shoot but only three of us do all the work. We are up there every Sunday with very few exceptions. We built most of the pen, we order the cover crops and sow them, we order the birds and collect them, we searched for and got barrels which we converted into feeders and during the season we go out in all weathers to ensure they have feed. We cleared the woods by felling trees to create a decent habitat and created wind breaks and all the endless little unpaid jobs you are aware of that needs doing on a shoot, including pest control. We aren't complaining as we wanted the shoot. Four of those who don't turn up have no commitments to anyone but themselves. It has been made clear to all that we are up there every Sunday and that their help would be appreciated. We stopped telling them this some years ago. No one but us three has ever turned up yet; but everyone turns up on shoot days. We don't complain and I think the others realise they have no right to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Mate who runs his shoot has 2 syndicate fees,them that don't want to work pay £150 more per season than those that do all the work.If they don't like it they can leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Increase the sub's and pay by the day those who turn up to work. That way, for those who work there is no increase in shooting costs and those who don't work pay those who do. If everyone turns out to work the shoot cost they all get back the increased cost and they're back to square one as far as cost is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 The biggest problem i see with the fine type set up is even at £150 most folk would be far better just to pay cash and go to work instead, even if ur only 2 work parties ur better of paying and going to work. Know 1 shoot that charges a work party fee but pays it back to the boys that turn up, so u get ur own cash back plus some of the others cash back who haven't turned up. But then u have the dilema are all people equal on a shot work party, some are just a laibility/hinderance or just turn up to say they've been there Know of other shoots where pens/woods are allocated to members, but some folk still don't look/feed when there meant to and that impacts on the whole of the shoot if birds die/wander. Or could be legali impications if any traps/snares set. Must admit i try and use a carrot rather than the stick approach, have it on same day each month and just work till lunch time ish then either go to clays or do a bit of dog training in afternoon so not all work and a bit more social. But still struggle to get boys sometimes, but to be fair to them they often struggle for shoot days as well with shifts/family etc If u have 4-6 decent lads turning up ur better than having 12 numpties, know i always feel lucky with my guns compared to when i speak to other shoot captains, some right muppets out there The problem in my area is loads of wee diy syndicates and most are short of guns so u can only be so hard as u still need numbers to cover cost have been a few local shoots folded in last few years as the same folk are getting older and sick of doing all the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Surely if you up the subs, you can afford to pay a few cheap local labourers to help and likely get better work done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 But then ur leaving the diy type syndicate and aproaching a fuly keepered syndicate, althou to br fair if bodeis are not turning up to help ur verging along that road anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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