andrew f Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 I had to be mentored even though I had be around deer stalking since I was knee high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmy1100 Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 what force are we talking here maybe if you give that information others under same force that have been in similar circumstances may be to offer advice all forces are different i know of a guy up here got .22 17 hmr and 243 on first application only had ever fired a shotgun dont figure, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 A point to consider,,and the reason why I declined to mentor someone,,is that I could get no clear answer as to who would be held responsible should the new shooter do something stupid and dangerous after I had submitted my account of my experience with them. I had the feeling that it was pushing responsibility away from the FLO and towards the mentor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 what force are we talking here maybe if you give that information others under same force that have been in similar circumstances may be to offer advice all forces are different i know of a guy up here got .22 17 hmr and 243 on first application only had ever fired a shotgun dont figure, West Mercia ... A point to consider,,and the reason why I declined to mentor someone,,is that I could get no clear answer as to who would be held responsible should the new shooter do something stupid and dangerous after I had submitted my account of my experience with them. I had the feeling that it was pushing responsibility away from the FLO and towards the mentor. Exactly my problem. Or I pay 290 quid for a dsc1 4 days off work and accommodation. After that I won't have enough left to buy the rifle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted July 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Why should the quarry species make any difference. The police are charged with ensuring public safety NOT with butchery and larder work. I see no difference between a crow, fox or deer, taking a safe shot applies to all species. Exactly and since when did the rules between shooting a centre fire and rim fire become different? Both require a safe backstop species ID etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 A lot of places do DSC1 over 2 days now, or atleast they used too, and usually over a wknd. But u can only learn so much on a range or out a book and things change when ur out on ur own. Most of the older generation will have been unofficallially mentored by who ever got u started shooting which is the best way to learn esp if they're proper old country men. But experience does not allways mean safe, and pois have no real way of knowing that. Which is why mentoring falls down also as has been mentioned if they try to put some blame/laibilty on to u if anything goes wrong. And the final more modern thing is nowadays some shooters think nothing of poaching ground of others including there mentor I can think of 1 group of older experienced lads i used to beat with and do fox drives, the ammount of time they hand u semi's over gates/fences with bolt closed and 1 lad always has his rifle with him usually when walking in it is hanging down his back so barrel is pointing at folk behiind. Some folk u just can't tell as they have been doing it wrong/unsafely for so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 Don't see why you shouldn't be mentored for shooting deer. I think everyone should be mentored to shoot and prep Deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 After speaking with BASC I asked the firearms department to write to me explaining their reason for refusal. Which they did, that surprised me, so now BASC have draught-ed me a letter to send in. It just so happens the guy I am speaking with helped write the home office guidelines west mercia are breaching! I think we have them by the shirt and curlies now. I doubt they will be stubborn enough that we take them to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrix's rifle Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 I think everyone should be mentored to shoot and prep Deer. What's the different between a deer and a rabbit then? If you should be mentored for deer then surely you should be mentored for rabbit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 It not a perfect course system but IMHO it's better than nothing and certainly better than give a guy a gun and letting him learn it as he goes that's an accident waiting to happen. As for DSC1 is fine for large deer but not need for muntjack, why is that do muntjack deserve less respect than red deer etc. I believe ALL our quarry deserves our full respect. I personally believe we need a formalised mentoring training system that lets the mentor know what he has to teach the 'student' instead of the mentor guessing what should be done. Whilst I can empathise with the need for an individual to demonstrate competence before being granted an FAC, the onus should, imho, not lay with others but with the licensing teams to ensure that THEY are satisfied with an individuals fitness to possess and use a CF rifle. Otherwise what we end up with is a whole new industry springing up to capitalise and make money off the backs of individuals taking advantage of the attitudes towards mentoring and DSC1 of many police regions. Don't get me wrong, I sat DSC1 myself, but always intended to as a way of continued learning, and whilst I found it useful and informative, it was by no means exhaustive nor proof of anything much as far as the police's duties for public safety were concerned. The safety tests, both written and practical, were ok but the basics of what ought to be expected and no more. That implies some minimum standard of training for FEOs who make the recommendations to the heads of licensing and I'll bet such moves would indeed be welcomed by most FEOs including courses on safe firearms handling, a degree of ballistic knowledge, training on legislation such as the Game Act, W&C Act, the Deer Act si at least they start with a position of knowledge and experience which should add confidence when assessing applicants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrol Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Your all right guys Mentoring is a bag of worms sometimes BUT I've just finished a mentoring of 18 months starting from he had a 22 rimmy, started out on rabbits right through to removing 20 odd foxes and he's now grassed five deer and can gralloch to Dsc 2 level, the guy has had no easy run from me start to finish but he has a respect for wildlife which is to me very important All in all he's done well in 18 short months, taken in everything I've shown him and really enjoyed it, Brilliant lamp man and driver and his rifle safety second to none, it wasn't without its trials and tribulations and kicks up the backside on occasions On completion of his evidence portfolio, he's now got a open ticket for expanding ammo and rifles .22 LR .22 WMR 222 and .243 Complete set up and I would have him shooting alongside me anytime ( I wouldn't tell him that though) he's really turned out to be a real decent rifleman with a respect for wildlife. Ticked all my boxes, on safety, rifle use, etiquette, and I got him a slot this year in a stalking syndicate so the 18 months has been worthwhile for him and I've picked up a decent shooting mate Mentoring isn't new really, I had the same from the guys I grew up with showing you the right way to carry on, they didn't have a posh name for it then, When he handed in the book to his feo, he went right through the lot, rang me up and signed off the whole lot with no conditions there and then, it's got to be the way to go. Patrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Rather than any hard and fast criteria to follow, I've found that much depends on the particular licensing area, the FEO and the applicant themselves as regards mentoring. Edited July 12, 2016 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Rather than any hard and fast criteria to follow, I've found that much depends on the particular licensing area, the FEO and the applicant themselves as regards mentoring. The guidelines are pretty clear only a new applicant needs experience for centrefire and experience of backstops etc is not calibre specific. Any feo who asks for mentoring is ignoring home office guidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 The guidelines are pretty clear only a new applicant needs experience for centrefire and experience of backstops etc is not calibre specific. Any feo who asks for mentoring is ignoring home office guidelines.I wouldn't know as I've never read the guidelines. I don't know anyone who has been mentored for either rf or cf in Cumbria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Why should the quarry species make any difference. The police are charged with ensuring public safety NOT with butchery and larder work. I see no difference between a crow, fox or deer, taking a safe shot applies to all species. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Just a quick update, after waiting 3 months and having to lodge a complaint with the PCC the head of west mercia firearms department has acknowledged i am right and i dont need a mentor and is going to put a .243 on my ticket for deer, fox and aolq on land i have cleared. Time to go shopping!! Edited October 19, 2016 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just a quick update, after waiting 3 months and having to lodge a complaint with the PCC the head of west mercia firearms department has acknwledged i am right and i dont need a mentor and is going to put a .243 on my ticket for deer, fox and aolq on land i have cleared. Time to go shopping!! Good result there mate. Have a nice shopping trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Good for you; that's the way to do it! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Good for you; that's the way to do it! I'd like to think West Mercia will change it's wider policy now. But I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powler Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Way to go. Well done, happy shopping. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly47 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Just a quick update, after waiting 3 months and having to lodge a complaint with the PCC the head of west mercia firearms department has acknowledged i am right and i dont need a mentor and is going to put a .243 on my ticket for deer, fox and aolq on land i have cleared. Time to go shopping!! Well done ! Stood your ground well after good advice from basc. Happy shopping ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well done to you, this is a prime example of how one should deal with such matters in a polite but firm way rather than many who are frightened to make a fuss thinking, quite incorrectly, that it will jepodise their application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well done to you, this is a prime example of how one should deal with such matters in a polite but firm way rather than many who are frightened to make a fuss thinking, quite incorrectly, that it will jepodise their application. The thing to remember is the law is on your side. It seems there are lots of firearms departments who think they can make up their own laws and demand mentoring for cf in the feild. I can post the meat of the letter i sent them if anyones interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Yes, please do; it may give others the inspiration and confidence to assert themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well done Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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