SNS Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hello - am wondering whether any PW experts may be able to tell me anything about my new gun - least of all the choke size as I've mislaid the papers I got with it ! I've attached a few photos, also of the serial number as it seems some of you are able to unlock all sorts of provenance from that ? Many thanks in advance And another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Final one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Thats a very pretty gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Sorry can't tell you anything about it other than the fact it's a thing of beauty. What a stunning gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Thanks - am not sure the pictures do it justice either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Just after WW1 if the serial number is 15964. I've got an earlier single trigger Lang, pre-WW1 A lovely looking gun K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Very nice gun. You would have to get the choking measured (or pattern the gun) because (a), proof marks don't give a choke measurement, and (b), there is nothing to say the choking hasn't been altered (reduced) at some time. A measurement is easy for a gunsmith with a bore gauge and gives a good guide to choke. I believe Francis Lovell own the name and hold the Atkin Grant & Lang records? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 They do have he records but some details are missing apparently My gun is 15203 and the record is missing sadly though the AGL Don Masters book shows 15199/200 as rifles for a Maharajah K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Pretty sure it was made, and proofed, in London in 1919-20. Just out of interest Joseph , in his earlier days, sold Purdey shotguns and indeed married one of James Purdey's daughters. Company ceased to trade in 1925 when they were taken over by Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Thanks all - v interesting! Will see next week how I shoot with it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 i do like sxs with plain sidelocks...........nice gun and nice wood and loverly blacked barrels......just quality...lucky boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) You will have to go to a good gun shop and have the choke measured - measuring choke is done my measuring the thousandths of an inch of constriction from the bore to the muzzle. To do this you use a bore micrometer and measure 14 inches from the muzzle and slowly pull the micrometer towards the muzzles till it just slips out of the muzzle, the difference between the measurement 14 inches from the muzzle and the measurement at the muzzle is the choke. No difference between these two measurements is considered a cylinder bore. 0.002 = Special Cylinder. 0.005 = Improved Cylinder. 0.010 = Quarter Choke. 0.020 = Half Choke ( also know as modified ). 0.030 = Three Quarter Choke ( also known as improved modified ). 0.040 = Full Choke. As has been said above the guns marks does not display choke information other than the fact that there is some degree of choke. As a 12 bore could range from .709 to .748 in the bore its those choke key things do not give any kind of accurate measurement of choke. What we can tell from the proof marks is that your gun was originally proofed as a bore size of 13/1, what does this mean - well in the old days they had a series of wooden plugs which were inserted into the bore, you see guns chambered for 12 bore cartridges which are actualy 14's bore. When the gun was proofed a wooden plug was tried in the barrel 9 inches from the breach, 13/1 ( said thirteen over one ) means that the wooden plug for 12 bore did not fit in the barrel to the right depth of nine inch, so the next size down was the 13/1 plug which measured .719, this must have fitted and the next size down which was the 13 bore plug measuring .710 was too loose, this was the easiest way for the poof houses to gauge bore diameters, however it does not give us a definitive numerical value as the bore could have been anything bigger than .710 up to .719 Don't have my book with me so that is all i can tell you from the top of my head. Hope its of some interest - Im certainly not an authority on these things and im very ready to admit that there may be inaccuracies in what i have said - so if anyone knows better do chime in. Edited August 28, 2016 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 I have an almost identical Pollard, again ,London built but with lower grade timber - bought off this site a while back for £150 - spent the same again on Woodwork and re-blacking the barrels and she now looks almost new - 1914 and still used most weeks - in fact she accounted for 7 pigeons out of 10 shots just this Tuesday whilst roost shooting There is just "something" about a reborn English SxS's that makes them addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 All that from the top of your head? You must have a great knowledge of these matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 All that from the top of your head? You must have a great knowledge of these matters. Anyone who knows me will tell you that this is my life! - sad as it may be. I love all this stuff i am complete history nerd and i love old guns and i have been learning about this sort of stuff for years both under my own steam from books and and from wiser individuals in the trade - I spend every day working on guns; i wouldn't profess to know everything and i do make mistakes. I know a bit about proof but certainly not everything - some people are able to tell you everything about a proof mark just by looking at it - i still have to refer Greeners books to decipher everything but there are bits i know better than others. I have different guns from all kinds of different time periods of proof so have read up on all sorts over the last few years - i follow a lot of auctions and understanding proof and wall thicknesses and various measurements is key in understanding a guns value, i have worked in a gun room for a while as well and measured up all kinds of guns and spent quiet afternoons with my nose in books there too so i just have been fortunate to have the opportunity to learn about all of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Wow - many thanks for all this detail ! Next question- if I can't get the fore end back on, what on earth have I messed up ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Anyone who knows me will tell you that this is my life! - sad as it may be. I love all this stuff i am complete history nerd and i love old guns and i have been learning about this sort of stuff for years both under my own steam from books and and from wiser individuals in the trade - I spend every day working on guns; i wouldn't profess to know everything and i do make mistakes. I know a bit about proof but certainly not everything - some people are able to tell you everything about a proof mark just by looking at it - i still have to refer Greeners books to decipher everything but there are bits i know better than others. I have different guns from all kinds of different time periods of proof so have read up on all sorts over the last few years - i follow a lot of auctions and understanding proof and wall thicknesses and various measurements is key in understanding a guns value, i have worked in a gun room for a while as well and measured up all kinds of guns and spent quiet afternoons with my nose in books there too so i just have been fortunate to have the opportunity to learn about all of this stuff. Rings true to me! Anyone who tells you they know all this technical stuff without reference to books is not being truthful! Like many people I know a bit about a lot but not everything about one subject.....but having an understanding, knowing where to look and having access to the required info is more than half the battle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Next question- if I can't get the fore end back on, what on earth have I messed up ?!The most likely cause is that the gun has been 'fired' with the fore end off. If that is the case, the locks will need to be cocked manually. When the locks have been fired, it is sometimes impossible to put the fore end back on due to the raised cocking levers. It could also be the ejectors have 'fired' and again these can be cocked manually. The locks (or ejectors) can be cocked manually, but this needs care - and can easily cause damage, so my suggestion is that unless you are totally confident you know what you are doing - go to a gunsmith. It is easy to put right when you know what you are doing. If you want to try, the cocking levers for the locks need to be pushed down such as against the edge of a bench - but care is needed and it is possible to slip and do damage. The springs are quite strong. The ejectors do differ a bit from gun to gun, but I believe a Lang has Southgate ejectors, and here there are two small 'hammers' in the middle of the fore end. When cocked, these should be back. If they are not, they can be pushed back, but again care is needed. My best advice is get someone who knows what they are doing (e.g. gunsmith) to show you before you try yourself, because both springs are quite strong and the wrong parts pushed could cause damage. You should never 'dry fire' the locks without snap caps as damage can occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) It's a Sidelock - just remove the locks and cock the hammers with a screwdriver . Edited August 28, 2016 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 It's a Sidelock - just remove the locks and cock the hammers with a screwdriver - make sure you push the triggers forward as you replace the locks and that the dog/s are held down towards the floor plate - 2 min job There you go SNS, just remove the side locks and cock the dogs. I see a trip to the Broadway Gun Room coming on for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Indeed - they are closed tomorrow so Mrs SNS will be taking it there on Tues as I rather hope to be using it on Friday ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Where did you get it from? Is It a new stock as it looks remarkably similar to the Lang I had a year or so ago I will have to check the serial number on my certificate when I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNS Posted August 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 (edited) Oxford Gun Co at the Game Fair...... And isn't a new stock as far as I can tell Edited August 28, 2016 by SNS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Built on a Webley and Scott action ? From the side view it looks very similar and W & S did build guns for many London firms , Grant ,Lang , Lancaster , Atkin Evans etc. Picture of the top lever would confirm or deny . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Built on a Webley and Scott action ? From the side view it looks very similar and W & S did build guns for many London firms , Grant ,Lang , Lancaster , Atkin Evans etc. Picture of the top lever would confirm or deny . And Holland and Holland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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