Hamster Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Well you kind of got that bit close but the rest. Where did this lot come from? Who said it and where. ? Over the years many people have said it including one or two world champions. It's just one of those unfortunate instances of someone prolly back in the 60's fantasising and theorising about shot clouds (before much correct info was known about them) and very possibly misinterpreting the instances of the front of a clay or bird being hit as the rearmost cloud catching the target. Once someone goes on print with something that sounds plausible it then very understandably gets picked up by the even more clueless and so gets born an old wives tale. It sometimes takes decades for these myths to be exposed and the more ingrained they are within our minds the harder it is to let go and admit its falseness. There are many other examples of such untrue facts within shooting. I once heard a very good friend of mine describe it as thus : shoot too far in front and since the clay is moving towards the cloud there is a chance of a hit but shoot too far behind and it sure ain't gonna reverse into your shot cloud is it ? You see that sounds perfectly plausible but that doesn't make it any less of a nonsense. Relatively speaking there are very few people who even think about these things or care but the Americans for all their faults aren't like us here, they don't just accept everything when it comes to ballistics and if you (like me) spend a few years reading and following their tests and appraisals and discussions with an open mind, you will begin to see things a little differently. I am not against anything, I simply demand proof and evidence. Coupled to my fairly extended experience of shooting clays and pigeon for over 30 years I can make logical judgements free from assumptions. I have changed my mind about a few things over the years after having read up and followed threads/discussions/tests and rhetorical evidence. Shot string being of no perceptible/measurable use is just one of them. It's important to see that I am not saying a pattern that is 6 feet long is bad or worse than one that is 9 feet long, I am just saying that in itself does not aid higher scores. The longer it is the sparser it becomes, the shorter it is the fuller it has to become by definition. The latter needs more accurate placement, the former allows for more leeway but that in turn means it has a higher probability of a miss due to sparseness, hence why top shot all use tight chokes. Everything is a trade off. Edited October 18, 2016 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 A very technical subject this choke business. It sure is Whitebridges , I never knew there were so many different chokes on the market , I find it interesting but I will stick with the ones that are in my ole s x s , 1/4 and 3/4 , served me well , and cant see any point in mending something if it isn't broke . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 It sure is Whitebridges , I never knew there were so many different chokes on the market , I find it interesting but I will stick with the ones that are in my ole s x s , 1/4 and 3/4 , served me well , and cant see any point in mending something if it isn't broke . Now now John you know full well it's 1/4 and 1/2 Chokes with pitted barrels to make that ole shot spin so it fly's true 😜👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Now now John you know full well it's 1/4 and 1/2 Chokes with pitted barrels to make that ole shot spin so it fly's true Might well be Brad , my finger go in now a bit deeper than it used to , the end of the barrel im talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Now now John you know full well it's 1/4 and 1/2 Chokes with pitted barrels to make that ole sh Now now John you know full well it's 1/4 and 1/2 Chokes with pitted barrels to make that ole shot spin so it fly's true Makes sence Ive seen his landrover i think and his webed fingers, what did he do with the pump action with the platted sizal sling. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Right well guess what...... I have one to test out. Have used a wad wizard ( same system) before and that worked..... but only with plastic wads and steel or hevi shot. Lead loads you honestly couldn't tell the difference. These stripper chokes offer the opportunity to produce tight patterns with less constriction. Which in certain barrels/chokes could be a huge advantage 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Thank God for fixed chokes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Westley - I have the same model of gun in fixed - 3/8 and 3/8 - plus a Teague choked version. I use the fixed choke all the time.Timps / Hamster - I don't know what you have said to upset the odd poster, but stop "Terrorising" them and admit you are wrong. We all know you are correct in saying there is no definitive proof about these mega chokes, but frankly, that isn't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 It sure is Whitebridges , I never knew there were so many different chokes on the market , I find it interesting but I will stick with the ones that are in my ole s x s , 1/4 and 3/4 , served me well , and cant see any point in mending something if it isn't broke . I've got two fixed choke guns that do the business, a few with multi chokes that have never had the chokes changed. I wouldn't normally bother but i'm intrigued by this patternmaster wad ripper and it's reputation! I'll be amazed if I notice any difference. Will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I've got two fixed choke guns that do the business, a few with multi chokes that have never had the chokes changed. I wouldn't normally bother but i'm intrigued by this patternmaster wad ripper and it's reputation! I'll be amazed if I notice any difference. Will report back. Looking forward to the forthcoming report , but please keep it practical rather than technical , as it is going to take ages for me to find out what the pattern master wad ripper is without you going into any more technical terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Looking forward to the forthcoming report , but please keep it practical rather than technical , as it is going to take ages for me to find out what the pattern master wad ripper is without you going into any more technical terms Firstly there is absolutely zero chance of me getting technical as far as choke is concerned. My in depth appraisal will be nothing sophisticated for sure. You might get a "go buy one" or " utter pooh for the money". It arrived today. Should be able to get out this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Looks superb, hits target with up to 70% more energy have to say I'm struggling with that on so many levels, the questions are just buzzing around me head. Does that for instance mean we can drop down to say 8 gram of lead and get similar results to standard shells or can velocities be dropped by say half, standard 6 or 7 shot usually gets stopped inside a pigeon so does all this extra power drill them right through ?? Where does this extra power come from ? Questions questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Interesting, I note the blurb on the packaging states "designed specifically for non toxic ammo". What will you be shooting through it in your tests WB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hamster - 70% is 70%. No-one can argue with that. It is beyond question. It is a miracle. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widgeon man Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Guys...... the blurb is a lot of rubbish! This style of choke does work, but best with hard, non toxic shot for tight patterns utilising plastic wads. If you want an 'all around' or decoy choke use standard stock tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Interesting, I note the blurb on the packaging states "designed specifically for non toxic ammo". What will you be shooting through it in your tests WB? TC nothing out of the ordinary. Lead RC 32g No 6. Some of the old Eley HB Pigeon 32g 6.5 shot depends which I throw in the truck to be honest. I sometimes shoot the Gamebore Extreme Pigeon, 34g no 5 but mostly at pheasant late season. When I ordered they said it would pop steel which is a plus but i'm not that keen if i'm honest. Edited October 19, 2016 by Whitebridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Fair point Figgy, my brother has a collection of them so, i pattern a few and in my personal experience you're right, some chokes pattern really nicely and more consistently, yet i am not convinced i want to spand that money on the chokes ; possibly because my shooting doesn't require any particular adjustment i cannot achieve by adjusting my loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 TC nothing out of the ordinary. Lead RC 32g No 6. Some of the old Eley HB Pigeon 32g 6.5 shot depends which I throw in the truck to be honest. I sometimes shoot the Gamebore Extreme Pigeon, 34g no 5 but mostly at pheasant late season. When I ordered they said it would pop steel which is a plus but i'm not that keen if i'm honest. You may like to try some light loads 24 grams you may be surprised Just a thought All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 This lad took the time to video his tests i tend to see things pretty much as he does. Hes on the money in my opinion. He answes your missgivings about shot strings, and i like him do endorse this product, and i too am not on SRMs pay roll either just telling it like it is. Never take my .720 terror out only for F steel which i rarely use, then i run a tighter .705 Terror due to the velocity i drive F steel at in my Tens. Just watched this. That shows nothing of any real substance, and as a test, is of no use whatsoever. Anyway, when did weird Al Yankovic start shooting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 What I have found is that aftermarket chokes with steel make a lot of difference between killing and wounding. We aren't talking lead, but non toxic loads which behave differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 What I have found is that aftermarket chokes with steel make a lot of difference between killing and wounding. We aren't talking lead, but non toxic loads which behave differently. But it's advertised as a pigeon choke , who shoots pigeon with non lead ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 You may like to try some light loads 24 grams you may be surprised Just a thought All the best Of I use 24g of No 7 in a Beretta 28 bore and it kills them a treat. I don't think I'll bother using 24g in a 12 bore but thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 good video, just shows hoe high the big loads make your gun pattern,dial that out to fifty yards and its easy to miss. Plenty of penetration with whatever carts and shot he was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I use 25 gram #3 in my 12g auto for ducks throw the code black duck up to now i have had one diver out of over 30 ducks shot on the marsh and over my pond plus 3 geese i could"t do that 3-4 years ago with factory chokes and at the ranges i am now killing duck clean in the air. I also could"t get any where near the density in my patterns that i am getting with the code black choke. For what i use the throw my choke for given shooting light duck loads to big 3.5" BBB for geese i have loads that do the job and do the job well it hardly ever comes out the gun only if i am going to use real big shot T or F shot on the shore. But in my opinion they do what it says on the tin and i have two one the way for the 20 bore and will be ordering some for the 10 next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I have shot several pigeons with steel, but I wouldn't buy a specific choke to shoot pigeons, and I certainly wouldn't use a choke that's designed with steel shot in mind, if I only used lead. Figgy, were you referencing that rubbish Terror choke video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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