Current advice on doctors fees

[Wb123]

I can now access my medical records online, first thing I noticed is it was updated April 16th to "Has firearm certificate", this is listed under "Current Problems"

Assuming an EMIS system codes seem to split into either 'current problems' or 'past problems'.

 

Often something very pertinent and life long ends up in past problems reasonably well hidden away with forty instances of viral illness, athletes foot, and all sorts of detritus, whilst something entirely self limiting and uninteresting from two years ago stays in current problems.

 

In theory at least that is the best place in the system to place such a code where it might be seen in a consultation (not that I ever tended to read the 'current problems' list when doing a GP stint, I asked the patient what else was going on).

 

 

The whole system of medical records is entirely unsuited to this sort of thing. When warning flags for children at risk or violent patients not to be seen by unescorted female members of staff etc disappear into the ether the concept of these flags being robust is a joke. It is a shameless risk dump from the police adding unpaid work to GPs, who consequently should charge like a wounded rhino or refuse to do it. Shooters in turn should also challenge what is a bonkers system by asking their GPs not to respond where appropriate.

[Scully]

Assuming an EMIS system codes seem to split into either 'current problems' or 'past problems'.

 

Often something very pertinent and life long ends up in past problems reasonably well hidden away with forty instances of viral illness, athletes foot, and all sorts of detritus, whilst something entirely self limiting and uninteresting from two years ago stays in current problems.

 

In theory at least that is the best place in the system to place such a code where it might be seen in a consultation (not that I ever tended to read the 'current problems' list when doing a GP stint, I asked the patient what else was going on).

 

 

The whole system of medical records is entirely unsuited to this sort of thing. When warning flags for children at risk or violent patients not to be seen by unescorted female members of staff etc disappear into the ether the concept of these flags being robust is a joke. It is a shameless risk dump from the police adding unpaid work to GPs, who consequently should charge like a wounded rhino or refuse to do it. Shooters in turn should also challenge what is a bonkers system by asking their GPs not to respond where appropriate.

A highly pertinent and enlightening post.

I have long considered the entire process a farce.

[CharlieT]

 

Yes but as from April 2016, that has changed and they are now requesting a GP letter and to update your NHS med records that you are a FAC\SGC holder. Hence, GP are charging us lot for the work they carry out.

 

I am and indeed every one else is quite aware of that that.

If you look at my post again, you will see that I was replying to a specific question (post) from Norfolk Dumpling.

[Wb123]

A highly pertinent and enlightening post.

I have long considered the entire process a farce.

I hate being in the position of straddling both sides in the matter. No group is happy with this mess but everyone blames each other. A well coordinated resistance from all sides would nip the matter in the bud to everyones benefit but instead we just argue and try to avoid looking at it from each others perspectives.

 

For anyone in doubt:

Shooters - a silly expensive extra hoop to jump through.

Doctors - a risk dump taking time and resources away from the work in gp land they are paid by results to do (this is unpaid unless a charge levied, and costs time that could otherwise be making money whilst also adding to medicolegal risk).

The BMA - a chance to be a bunch of 'socially responsible twunts' in the governments back pocket by supporting this pile of **** and shafting everyone else (i want my union, who i pay handsomely, to represent my interests and mine alone).

The police - a chance to transfer legal risk to the doctors and thus any claim for compensation onto the medicolegal insurers

The insurers - (who currently charge a around £15k pa for a full time gp) have yet to pass comment but this sort of thing they are known to exclude unless substantial extra premiums are added. I suspect they will price it out of the market in time by asking so much to cover such work that the fees that would have to be charged are unviable, if it is allowed to go on for so long.

Basc - stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

My preferred option for people to take is to write a short note to your gp along the lines of 'sorry to bother you with this rubbish, as you may remember i dont tick any of the pertinent boxes. I feel it best to avoid this kind of work being pushed onto the medical profession when already so stretched, and I would be most obliged if you help resist the imposition of this extra work and help discourage any expansion of such work dumping by not responding'. The last analysis i found for costs of running a surgery reckoned one needed to be 'earning' circa £200 per hour per doctor to cover staff, building, and indeminty costs, so a 15 minute review of the notes with a very quick reply (optomistic if this includes the old paper records) for a fee of £50 plus is entirely reasonable to my mind. The coding system is suitably unreliable that i would most definitely want to skim the notes and letters before responding.

[kody]

Yes but as from April 2016, that has changed and they are now requesting a GP letter and to update your NHS med records that you are a FAC\SGC holder. Hence, GP are charging us lot for the work they carry out.

I understood that police send a letter to your doctor

To let them know there ticket is up for renewal doctor makes a note of it

And if police don't hear anything back within 21 days all goes ahead is this correct or what

[Pugs]

double post

Edited October 27, 2016 by Pugs

[Pugs]

I understood that police send a letter to your doctor

To let them know there ticket is up for renewal doctor makes a note of it

And if police don't hear anything back within 21 days all goes ahead is this correct or what

 

I believe that may be the case in England (if they do respond within 21 days they would send a letter back to the Police and mark your med record, which is where the charges are being made). Police Scotland will NOT process our applications if they DO NOT receive anything back (even after 21 days and thats from the horses mouth) from the GP, probably a directive from the SNP! I was charged £37

Edited October 27, 2016 by Pugs

[McSpredder]

Police Scotland will NOT process our applications if they DO NOT receive anything back ..... I was charged £37

That fee is a lot less than the £200 my GP practice has just demanded for the initial response. Their letter says:

"We will be informing Police Scotland that we will not be able to complete their request for a report until we have received payment from you for this."

 

I have sent an email to BASC Scotland, and it will be interesting to see if they have any comments about the level of fees being charged.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Daylight robbery, do they wear masks?

[Scully]

That fee is a lot less than the £200 my GP practice has just demanded for the initial response. Their letter says:

"We will be informing Police Scotland that we will not be able to complete their request for a report until we have received payment from you for this."

 

I have sent an email to BASC Scotland, and it will be interesting to see if they have any comments about the level of fees being charged.

Wow! 200 quid?! Somebody is extracting some urine methinks!

[mr smith]

That fee is a lot less than the £200 my GP practice has just demanded for the initial response. Their letter says:"We will be informing Police Scotland that we will not be able to complete their request for a report until we have received payment from you for this."I have sent an email to BASC Scotland, and it will be interesting to see if they have any comments about the level of fees being charged.

Are you the guy on SD that the GP said they had to call you every three months to check up on you?

[McSpredder]

Are you the guy on SD that the GP said they had to call you every three months to check up on you?

Not I. I have been lucky health-wise and only seen the GP half a dozen times in the 32 years that I have been registered with him.

 

Police Scotland will not process any renewal until the GP with whom you are currently registered has returned the tick-box enquiry form.

At the moment it looks as though there are just two options if you live in Scotland:

1 Pay whatever fee the GP wants to charge (a couple of months ago I heard somebody talk of £20, this week it is £200, perhaps next month it will be £2,000).

2 Give up shooting altogether.

 

I suppose a third option (maybe the best one) is to emigrate.

[mr smith]

Not I. I have been lucky health-wise and only seen the GP half a dozen times in the 32 years that I have been registered with him.

 

Police Scotland will not process any renewal until the GP with whom you are currently registered has returned the tick-box enquiry form.

At the moment it looks as though there are just two options if you live in Scotland:

1 Pay whatever fee the GP wants to charge (a couple of months ago I heard somebody talk of £20, this week it is £200, perhaps next month it will be £2,000).

2 Give up shooting altogether.

 

I suppose a third option (maybe the best one) is to emigrate.

Ah okay there was someone on SD quoting £200 as well but the GP claimed it was so expensive because they had to do three monthly checks.Yeah police scotland don't seem willing to move on this point and the organisation's except for sacs seem willing try and change things.

[rbrowning2]

Hates say I told you so, but if you look back at my posts on this subject I always said this was going to be s post code lotto and quickly get out of control. The shooting organisations were nieve at best if they ever thought different but hang on we got the ten year certificate as part of the process oh except we did not we got nothing.

[McSpredder]

Ah okay there was someone on SD quoting £200 as well but the GP claimed it was so expensive because they had to do three monthly checks.

Not three-monthly in my case, but the letter from the GP does say the cost includes an annual check over the five years of the certificate, to see whether any new issues have arisen.

 

Apologies for my ignorance, but what does SD refer to? Is it another web forum?

[Old farrier]

Hi

Just to throw another ball lnto this

 

Granddaughter got doctor to sighn passport application form (paid £40)

Passport office rejected her application as the doctor was not a British passport holder

So would the same thing apply in the case of licensing firearms?

Just a thought

 

All the best

Of

[mr smith]

Not three-monthly in my case, but the letter from the GP does say the cost includes an annual check over the five years of the certificate, to see whether any new issues have arisen.

 

Apologies for my ignorance, but what does SD refer to? Is it another web forum?

Ah yes sorry stalking directory

[McSpredder]

Ah yes sorry stalking directory

Thank you for that lead to the Stalking Directory forum. Clearly I am not the only person in Scotland who has received a fee demand of £200 for responding to the initial police enquiry

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/122084-BASC-says-don’t-pay-medical-fee/page26

 

In Scotland you are forced to pay whatever the doctor considers appropriate to maintain his lifestyle, unless you can transfer to another GP practice with a different scale of charges.

 

Are GPs now supposed to notify police if they become of aware of any change in medical condition that affects a person’s suitability to hold firearms? If so, an additional annual (or three-monthly) check cannot possibly improve public safety, and has no function other than to increase the GP’s private income.

 

Is treatment of sick and elderly NHS patients among the general population being treatment delayed so that GPs can increase their personal income by carrying out totally unnecessary checks? At the health centre referred to by the Stalking Directory member, any non-urgent appointments have to be booked several weeks ahead.

 

Some people have suggested that reviewing patient records would be quite time-consuming for a doctor. I wonder whether they ever consider the record keeping required in other types of business, such as agriculture.

 

In the case of cattle, the farmer must keep a register with details for every individual animal, recording its ear tag number; date of birth; sex; breed; dam’s ear tag number; date of every movement on or off the holding; details of where it has been moved from or to; date of death, etc. Every cattle movement must be entered in the register within 36 hours, the farmer has to be able to produce the register on demand, and it must be retained for a minimum of 10 years after the last entry.

 

Sheep recording requirements are similar. Pig farmers have an additional burden, and in most cases must notify animal movements in advance.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/keep-a-holding-register-for-cattle

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sheep-and-goat-keepers-how-to-keep-a-holding-register

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pig-keepers-report-and-record-movements-to-or-from-your-holding

 

The farmer also has to keep detailed records as required under the Veterinary Medicines Regulations.

 

A livestock farm is likely to have several hundred (sometimes many thousands) of animals. Should I concluded that the average farmer is much more efficient at data management than the average doctor?

[McSpredder]

Just posting to say that BASC Scotland is aware of this local situation in the Borders, and they have phoned me a couple of times today to discuss the best course of action.

[Hesketh]

I have a SGC had this for 3 years now, just applied for my FAC and dropped my letter into the GP last night. Got home and had a call asking me to pop back in and pay £20 for this to be processed.

 

£20, not too bad and if you work it out over the 5 years. But a faff and as I have a SGC already this to my mind is £20 for a tick and a stamp. Hay Ho.

[Bigmax1701]

Just had this via twitter

 

https://basc.org.uk/blog/key-issues/media-key-issues/basc-welcomes-bma-statement-conscience-firearms-licensing/

[ordnance]

 

This is correct. When you sign your application to give your licensing authority permission to connect your GP, it doesn't necessarily follow that they do. My FEO told me that in the past, ONLY if there is reason to do so, would they contact them.

Thats still the case here, for now.

 

 

I give my consent for the police to approach my GP, consultant or other medical authority to obtain factual details of my medical history if necessary.

Edited November 16, 2016 by ordnance

[armourer103]

i was under the impression that all this info can not be for profit, ie no charge, and any other info medical related has been rejected by the BMA and Doctors not to respond to,has its not doctors jobs to decide who can and cant hold SGC/FAC.

[armourer103]

PS, I gave permission for them to contact my GP, its up to him if he wants to,

[Bigmax1701]

According to the latest info, doctors cannot refuse flat, it's their responsibility to find a Doctor who will respond and cannot charge for the initial letter.