panoma1 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Anyone watch it today? Avery came across as what he is, a rabid, shooting hating protectionist, he managed to stay clear of the class hatred he usually spits out! but admitted he wants a total ban on driven grouse shooting.....the RSPB bloke disagreed, he was more the politician/diplomat......hid the true intentions of the RSPB, attacked grouse shooting by pushing the "licencing" of grouse moors angle, in a 'slowly, slowly catchee monkey' undermining, backstabbing way. The pro side were quite good, particularly the woman from the moorland association, they answered all the allegations reasonably! Overriding impression.........the 'Ban it' side were generally pushing opinion, speculation and guesswork wrapped up as science and tellingly, could not answer adequately the question of how they would replace the social and economic benefits of Grouse shooting that would no longer be available to these rural areas/communities if Driven Grouse shooting were to end? Avery suggested (amongst taxpayer funding???) eco tourism! and stated he would pay £50 to go and see a Hen Harrier on the moor........I wonder how many more twitchers would?........no one said it, but his £50 does not even equate to half a brace of grouse! I look forward to the debate in the commons on 31 October! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Would I be able to see this on player or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Dunno! I watched it live on the parliamentary website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Will have a search. Thanks for the heads up anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Anyone watch it today? Avery came across as what he is, a rabid, shooting hating protectionist, he managed to stay clear of the class hatred he usually spits out! but admitted he wants a total ban on driven grouse shooting.....the RSPB bloke disagreed, he was more the politician/diplomat......hid the true intentions of the RSPB, attacked grouse shooting by pushing the "licencing" of grouse moors angle, in a 'slowly, slowly catchee monkey' undermining, backstabbing way. The pro side were quite good, particularly the woman from the moorland association, they answered all the allegations reasonably! Overriding impression.........the 'Ban it' side were generally pushing opinion, speculation and guesswork wrapped up as science and tellingly, could not answer adequately the question of how they would replace the social and economic benefits of Grouse shooting that would no longer be available to these rural areas/communities if Driven Grouse shooting were to end? Avery suggested (amongst taxpayer funding???) eco tourism! and stated he would pay £50 to go and see a Hen Harrier on the moor........I wonder how many more twitchers would?........no one said it, but his £50 does not even equate to half a brace of grouse! I look forward to the debate in the commons on 31 October! It is time those people who want to see , in this instance, grouse shooting, banned, put their money where their overactive mouths always seem to be and set up a fund to compensate the estate workers, hotel staff and all others who will see their income reduced or destroyed by their proposals, Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 watch it hear http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/cf85fa5a-c53d-40d7-9b6a-abe86c35ee4e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyB Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Thank you for the link. Made for interesting viewing. To be honest I had expected Avery to be far more eloquent. He came across as a bit of a zealot who just wanted to ban but had no realistic answer for what would replace the lost local revenue. Eco tourism? Hilarious. As for the rspb chap he likewise had no answers. Just accusations of wild life crime trotted out as if it was fact. He looked out of his depth. I was half expecting his mum to be sitting on the row behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Yes. Thanks for the link. Have only watched it until the end of Avery and Trotts' (?) evidence, if you can call it that, and will watch the rest when I have time. Will be interesting to hear the response to the '300 breeding pairs oh hh down to 3' claim, as Avery just seemed to assume they were all illegally killed on grouse moors. Interesting stuff and some familiar faces behind Avery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Dear All, this is just the first side debate, the most important one will be later, that's why its important to keep lobbying MP's see here: https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/continue-to-lobby-mps-ahead-of-grouse-debate-basc-says/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I couldn't get it to load, just said will start shortly on loop Obviously doing something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Keep trying; mine buffered for quite a while before coming on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyB Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think that is actually the start of the recording while they wait for it to start. Just skip forward a few mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 New film from BASC https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-launches-latest-film-to-tackle-grouse-myths/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyB Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Just reading avery's account of the session. He seems like a very bitter man, luckily that bitterness was evident in his responses to reasonable questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospero Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I watched a lot of it, but not all, it was hard going... Basically Avery was unable to back up any of his assertions, there has never been any proven link between an incident of flooding and burning moors, he didn't have any figures to base his silly ideas on the financial implications of the ban, he accepted any research however tenuous that backed up his claims and rubbished DEFRA and others that didn't... He looked like what he was, someone who is a blinkered anti-shooting bigot, and just came back to hen harriers having only 3 pairs in England (yet he admitted that bird numbers do fluctuate elsewhere owing to entirely normal conditions) time and again and claiming "wildlife crime" was rife... We already have ample laws around protecting the wildlife in the countryside, we don't need more, and we don't need a fat necked plum like him. BAN HIM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I read his latest blog. I wasn't aware Simon Hart was still being paid (£30k a year according to Avery!) by the CA despite being an MP. Avery has claimed that from 1st November grouse shooting is 'doomed', although he wonders how long it will take. I didn't think he'd been given a hard time during his session, no more so than the RSPB bloke, but Avery did make make quite a few claims based more on opinion than fact, I thought. All very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Avery and Co getting a hammering today. The have been countered with written facts both on the great numbers of wildlife on grouse moors and the dire results on the RSPB managed ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 here's today debate http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/0b841a46-eb3d-44b3-83b7-9500482b6d92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I watch the whole thing - a few hours of my life i wont see back. The two arguments from the anti lobby focus on issues of flooding and issues of raptor persecution. On flooding the evidence suggests burning does create a quicker run off which can affect downstream flooding. Flooding is an emotive subject because it has caused genuine problems and flood evens have been more frequent in recent years. To suggest that this is because of grouse moor management is ridiculous in my opinion. I strongly question the extent to which grouse moor management is responsible for flooding as the antis would have you believe, while it is a contributing factor, there are many many factors including a key factor that's being overlooked - in the last few years we have had exceptionally high annual rainfall. Follow this link and select UK - Rainfall - Annual http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries/actualmonthly The last few years show that there has been high rainfall the like of which has not been seen since the 1950's. Could it be possible that the cause of flooding is not grouse moor management and might simply be that its raining more than usual? I'm simplifying things but if flooding is a serious problem then we should be using all the tools in the tool box to help alleviate the problems of flooding - banning driven grouse shooting will not address the issue. On Raptor persecution - If it is happening ( Im of the opinion that is though the idea the 300 hen harriers are expected to spring out of the ground is ludicrous ) we need better tools to bring these people to justice, their illegal practices bring the whole community into disrepute and do not reflect the modern, scientific and conservationist approach we have to modern keepering and countryside management. Just my opinion. The amusing thing about the evidence submission was their lack of plans for the future, the had no real ideas for what comes next. There is no real reason for a ban its key to remember why these habitats are still here to be enjoyed - many men drove themselves to bankruptcy paying for a love of grouse shooting and because there has always been an economy associated with grouse moors they have not been ruined by agriculture or plundered for their natural resources - as we have seen in many other fragile habitats in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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