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Interesting article on chokes


ChrisPCarter
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I thought I had read it all on chokes but this is a slightly different look at it from the norm and makes it a lot easier to visualise what's happening.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_st_headintheclouds_201002/

 

So what do you think?

Should we be using Modified 1/2 choke a lot more?

I must admit I did seem to get great results on pigeons and crows all year with half choke where previously I've been using something a bit more open before in my semi auto.

A lot of my sporting clays is shot with skeet and 1/4.

I might give 1/2 and 1/2 a go on the pheasants this weekend.

Or is it just that tighter chokes make you shoot more accurately...

Usual can of worms!

 

Chris.

Edited by ChrisPCarter
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From the article :

 

The real surprise, to me at least and, I believe, to most other shotgunners, is the performance of Modified. The pattern spreads steadily from the muzzle until, at 25 yards, it is a good 25-inch killing pattern. It then maintains this outer killing pattern for a full 20 yards, neither spreading further nor deteriorating, and giving excellent performance from 25 yards to 45 yards, and a still-creditable 20 inches way out there at 50 yards.

 

I'm really not at all sure of the science or proof behind this as it seems to suggest some shot patterns can defy the effects of wind resistance not to mention physics and not open up continuously :hmm: but based on a lifetime of shooting clays would have to agree that MOD is the best all rounder and not just because it happens to be the middle constriction if that makes sense.

 

It gives solid, readable breaks all the way to the sort of ranges most begin to falter in their accuracy anyway and is also just wide enough to afford an acceptable margin of error on close to mid range. I do find that tighter chokes are demonstrably better though when it comes to hard edge on going aways at 40+ yards.

 


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As some of you regulars will know I have taken to shooting 410 for most of my game bird shooting this last three seasons and initially because I wanted the best concentration, so I thought, of shot at 35 to 40yrds, then I used the full choke tubes in both barrels. I ran through two seasons and averaged 2.4 to 1 shot average( 3 to 1 is considered good) However this year I joined a new syndicate and the rules state we must use fibre wads ...no plastic. Now finding fibre wadded shells in 410 was not easy but one of our manufacturers has started to load some and I purchased a couple of hundred. Now I have been doing some pattern and penetration testing on some non toxic reloads for ducks, so had the board set up. I fired one or two of these fibre wadded shells and found that they produced a large hole in the centre of the pattern. Hmmmmm?? OK lets take the fulls, marked 1, out and try the chokes marked 11. Yilditz supply three choke tubes marked 1 11 111. Surprise surprise the pattern at 35yrds is more consistent and basically the same size, 30 inches. However the Fiocci 6s I normally shoot, start to throw holes with these chokes.

This article was of great interest to me. We shoot 'patterns' but in fact those flat patterns give no indication as to what is happening in real life. This weekend I am shooting my other syndicate and will shoot the Fiocchis in the #11 choke barrels. I will have to wait two weeks to see what happens with the fibre wadded shells. I'm not convinced they are up to the job and may revert to reloading and see what I can come up with.

 

On Edit. Of course in practicality you cannot say the missed bird WAS the fault of the choking ...can you :-)

Edited by Walker570
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As some of you regulars will know I have taken to shooting 410 for most of my game bird shooting this last three seasons and initially because I wanted the best concentration, so I thought, of shot at 35 to 40yrds, then I used the full choke tubes in both barrels. I ran through two seasons and averaged 2.4 to 1 shot average( 3 to 1 is considered good) However this year I joined a new syndicate and the rules state we must use fibre wads ...no plastic. Now finding fibre wadded shells in 410 was not easy but one of our manufacturers has started to load some and I purchased a couple of hundred. Now I have been doing some pattern and penetration testing on some non toxic reloads for ducks, so had the board set up. I fired one or two of these fibre wadded shells and found that they produced a large hole in the centre of the pattern. Hmmmmm?? OK lets take the fulls, marked 1, out and try the chokes marked 11. Yilditz supply three choke tubes marked 1 11 111. Surprise surprise the pattern at 35yrds is more consistent and basically the same size, 30 inches. However the Fiocci 6s I normally shoot, start to throw holes with these chokes.

This article was of great interest to me. We shoot 'patterns' but in fact those flat patterns give no indication as to what is happening in real life. This weekend I am shooting my other syndicate and will shoot the Fiocchis in the #11 choke barrels. I will have to wait two weeks to see what happens with the fibre wadded shells. I'm not convinced they are up to the job and may revert to reloading and see what I can come up with.

 

On Edit. Of course in practicality you cannot say the missed bird WAS the fault of the choking ...can you :-)

 

Are you talking about patterning the 410 at 35 yards ? What sort of shot loads ?

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That's an old article.

I didn't say it was new and I think people can read the date on it.

I was asking for people's thoughts on it and in that regard its age is of no relevance...

How tight are your chokes Tightchoke?

 

I've read a lot of articles on chokes over the years but never seen a 3D representation of patterns tested like this.

I had assumed the shot cloud shape was pretty much the same with each choke, just narrower as they get tighter.

According to that, 1/2 choke seems to have a very useful shape to it.

I guess because of its constriction in relation to the size of the centre core of the pattern and barrel size etc.

Edited by ChrisPCarter
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I thought I'd get a couple of flush internal chokes for my MK38 Sporter so that it didn't look quite such a clay buster with the extended Teagues in it when I'm on a game shoot.

I decided to get something a little different as I already have a few chokes in 1/4 and 1/2 so went for 3/8 and 5/8 flush chokes.

So that's a bit less than half and a bit more than half.

Best of both worlds? I'll probably still miss! :)

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+1

 

A right load of codswallop.

Or is it a more scientific approach to testing?

I don't think anyone would say testing on a pattern plate is codswallop?

This is just pattern testing to see how it looks at different distances - quite simple really but a lot of accurate and consistent testing would have been needed to do it properly.

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Or is it a more scientific approach to testing?

I don't think anyone would say testing on a pattern plate is codswallop?

This is just pattern testing to see how it looks at different distances - quite simple really but a lot of accurate and consistent testing would have been needed to do it properly.

I would be the first to agree 100% with you and simply don't understand why more shooters don't to it, but suffice to say, there's many who don't see the point in it. I can't comment on the validity of the piece for clays as I don't shoot them, but with regard to live quarry shooting it leaves a lot to be desired.

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Or is it a more scientific approach to testing?

I don't think anyone would say testing on a pattern plate is codswallop?

This is just pattern testing to see how it looks at different distances - quite simple really but a lot of accurate and consistent testing would have been needed to do it properly.

As I've said before, pattern plates are great for checking poa/poi but are two dimensional. Unless you're shooting a stationary target or something coming directly towards/away from you, even a big hole in a 2d pattern is not as important as it might seem at first glance.
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I always use half choke in my semi auto for lead shot. In my clay gun its just under half and tight half in the barrels and it works for me at anything close or far out i get good breaks without being to tight a pattern for skeet distance and close rabbits.

 

Most fixed choke game guns were 1/4 & 1/2 choke this is still the best choking for game shooting unless on very high stuff.

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I didn't say it was new and I think people can read the date on it.

I was asking for people's thoughts on it and in that regard its age is of no relevance...

How tight are your chokes Tightchoke?

 

I've read a lot of articles on chokes over the years but never seen a 3D representation of patterns tested like this.

I had assumed the shot cloud shape was pretty much the same with each choke, just narrower as they get tighter.

According to that, 1/2 choke seems to have a very useful shape to it.

I guess because of its constriction in relation to the size of the centre core of the pattern and barrel size etc.

 

 

I have a Mandel Full in the Semi-Auto, Fixed 3/4 and Full in the Beretta O/U and 8 and 11 thou in the most used side by side.

 

They each have a part to play and it is very important to understand what is happening to the pellets within the constriction.

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Most fixed choke game guns were 1/4 & 1/2 choke this is still the best choking for game shooting unless on very high stuff.

+1

 

To those going to 3/8 and 5/8 - there is nothing wrong with the 1/8 sizes at all, but the differences between different cartridge brands/loads will be greater (and much cheaper) than 1/8 change in choke. If you have an interest in choke, some time spent with a number of different cartridges (swap, scrounge, beg and borrow at you local clays club!) will produce interesting (and probably some surprising results) - and also occupies hours of time if you go to the trouble of pellet counting as our Victorian ancestors used to.

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+1

 

A right load of codswallop.

:good:

 

I use cylinder/cylinder or 1/4 1/4 in my OU's and 1/4 or cylinder in s/a. They make clean breaks on all true sporting distances targets i.e. those at 35/40 yard max. Yes, some shoots put on non sporting birds, 45/50 yards plus but I no longer shoot them so have no problem.

Edited by B25Modelman
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As most know, i have posted my 410 pattern results on here but also done 12 bore patterning as well.

 

At 35 yards for both bores and fibre wads I get the most consistent patterns with Briley Light Mod across 30 inch circle.

 

With 410. If i tighten choke further. Pattern immediately starts to develop holes and "spray" and has less pellets in it.

 

I haven't patterened any plastic wads in detail to see if any differences.

Edited by Stonepark
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i find it pretty funny that mod or 1/2 is the best choke between full and cylinder...

you could have just said... "the one in the middle"

 

Well that's the simple view! lol

But I was taking more interest in the shape of the different patterns they are shown to produce in this test.

It just happens that 1/2 seems to give a useful pattern, for whatever reason.

Edited by ChrisPCarter
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As I've said before, pattern plates are great for checking poa/poi but are two dimensional. Unless you're shooting a stationary target or something coming directly towards/away from you, even a big hole in a 2d pattern is not as important as it might seem at first glance.

Well this article is discussing it in 4 dimensions... That's twice as good as 2d testing! :lol:

Edited by ChrisPCarter
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As most know, i have posted my 410 pattern results on here but also done 12 bore patterning as well.

 

At 35 yards for both bores and fibre wads I get the most consistent patterns with Briley Light Mod across 30 inch circle.

 

With 410. If i tighten choke further. Pattern immediately starts to develop holes and "spray" and has less pellets in it.

 

I haven't patterened any plastic wads in detail to see if any differences.

 

My 410's have all had full choke but I'm looking for a nice multi choke game style 410.

Possibly one of the Webley 900 series as they seem a good price.

I must be a bit sad as I quite enjoy pattern testing and seeing which cartridge and choke combinations work best.

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As this is P W, out of interest, how many pellets are considered the minimum number required in the 30" circle in order to be reasonably (ioo% certainty is never feasible with a shotgun) certain that that given an accurate shot that on each and every time the trigger is pulled a pigeon will be cleanly killed 95% of the time? We'll assume the pigeon is giving the biggest possible target - it's an over head shot.

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