Advice On First Shotgun?

[flashgordon]

Greetings all! First post after being a keen reader for a while.

 

Looking for a bit of advice on my first shotgun after having taken a good few lessons. I intend to mainly focus on shooting clays, but would definitely like to try getting into shooting pigeon.

 

The standard first shotgun advice seems from various websites seems to fall into the 12 gauge Browning 525 or Beretta Silver Pigeon I category. My first lessons were with a B525. The thing is that I don't have a huge amount of upper body strength and so am finding that after 30-45 minutes of clay shooting that a 525 12g was rather tiring in my arms. I could switch to a 20g but the 12g seems better suited to the clays which will be my initial focus.

 

I went to one of my local shops this weekend and he advised me on two shotguns that he thought would suit me. Firstly, the Beretta Silver Pigeon I Field at 7lb 10oz, and secondly, his preference, the Caesar Guerini Tempio 30" Game model at 7lbs.

 

I have to say I'm rather taken with the Tempio, although the butt plate is wood rather than a recoil pad. The weight felt a lot better for me, and it was certainly a beautiful gun. It came in at £1,795. My budget was initially £1,500 but I guess I could stretch for the right gun.

 

Would anyone give any other advice on a 12g shotgun that weighs around the 7lb mark?

 

Thanks very much indeed!

[Rupert]

Give your self time to build endurance.

A lighter gun is prone to more perceived recoil.

 

In the time frame above how many shots taken?

[ditchman]

buy a no nonsense gun from "wabbitbosher" for pigeons...something that can be cut about and made to feel right for you .....then spend a bit more time shooting clays...and that will give you the confidense to buy the right gun....for that discipline...

[dipper]

A 7lbs gun is much too light for more than a few shots at clays.Go for as much weight as you can handle good luck with your choice.Dipper.

[flashgordon]

Last hours lesson I think I took about 80 shots (think..). I noticed it a bit more as my first few lessons with shared with my wife, but the last lesson was just myself.

 

For interest one lesson I asked to shoot with the B525 lightweight, and I came away with a very very bruised shoulder!

 

I guess I'm looking for a happy medium - something that's a bit lighter than a 'standard' clay gun, suitable for clays and pigeons.

 

The Guerini Tempio seemed a very nice gun. I'm just concerned about that wooden butt plate.

[HDAV]

Lighter gun = more recoil, my advice lift a few kg and build the muscle memory, once you have the gun do 20 mounts each evening at home and within a month you won't notice the weight.... If your shooting clays, the the weight doesn't matter so much between stands, but it does help you reduce fatigue from recoil when shooting a long day.

 

Get an Isis green pad fitted to a 525 buy a tidy used 30" mc sportier and you won't loose a lot after a year or 2 when you know what you need better

 

Or buy a miroku mk38 sporter and save a few £££££

Edited December 6, 2016 by HDAV

[Rupert]

Wife took up clays in 09, could only shoot 25 clays, a line of dtl at a session, very quickly built up the muscles to shoot 100 plus with a heavy K80.

 

CG are nice guns but a pound bet says you wont buy your lifer first time out so buy used.

[wymberley]

Last hours lesson I think I took about 80 shots (think..). I noticed it a bit more as my first few lessons with shared with my wife, but the last lesson was just myself.

 

For interest one lesson I asked to shoot with the B525 lightweight, and I came away with a very very bruised shoulder!

 

I guess I'm looking for a happy medium - something that's a bit lighter than a 'standard' clay gun, suitable for clays and pigeons.

 

The Guerini Tempio seemed a very nice gun. I'm just concerned about that wooden butt plate.

Would that have been your upper arm more than in your shoulder by any chance?

[Mr.C]

My advice would be something like a older Rizzini, you can pick them up for less than 300. Use it for a year by which time you'll have much more idea about what feels/fits right for you. You'll also built up strength and a repeatable gun mount, essential fkor a gun that fits.

Plus I bet you keep the old Rizzini, Ive still got mine.

[JohnfromUK]

A 7lbs gun is much too light for more than a few shots at clays.

This is a very generalised statement - and one with which I can't completely agree. If you are shooting an ounce or less, 7 lbs is just fine (in my view).

 

My normal clays are done with a 6 3/4 lb 12 bore with 21g Hull Comp X cartridges. It is light to use and moderate on recoil. The absolutely key thing is that light gun must equal light cartridge.

 

If you are a serious clays competition man, then you may want heavier all round, but if you are going to do a few clays and a few pigeons etc, and find heavy guns hard going, try a gun about 7 lbs - 7 1/2 lbs with light loads. A 12 like this has more cartridge choice as so is more versatile than a 20.

Edited December 6, 2016 by JohnfromUK

[Highlandladdie]

I was like you a number of years ago. Just starting out,and with a bit of money to burn. I settled on a new SP1 sporter. Well, I can say it was the best thing I could have bought.

 

The gun has been (nearly) faultless, I shoot everything with it, from sporting, DTL, ABT, Skeet to geese. Okay, I accept that it is not best suited to some of these disciplines, but as an all rounder it's fantastic.

 

At the end of the day there is going to be loads of conflicting advice here. Just buy what you want! Then learn to shoot it. Unless you are a really weird shape, any of the main manufacturers will be perfect.

 

I'd personally buy a sporter, bit heavier which will help with the recoil, but it's not so heavy that you can't use it on a walked up etc.

 

Happy shopping

[Savhmr]

Buy one that fits. For your first gun, fit is more important than what brand or weight or style. You'll change your mind or at least learn after a year or two what matters to you in a gun so little point asking others what they think. You'll work that one out for yourself. Don't spend too much on a first gun as you'll probably change or at least add to it later. Ejector would be handy. Game only, SBS or O/U; mixed shooting and clays, possibly just look at an O/U, 12g. IF they fit, the older Miroku guns are a great buy. In SBS, AYA Nr4.

[BerettaSV10]

Would say the SP1 field is not a very good gun for a new comer to shooting clays, firstly it is to light to soak up the recoil if you plan to do a full days clay shooting and second the field guns are normally fitted with an auto safety. which means that you have to remember to switch the safety off every time you load the gun and ready to shoot it. Its very easy to forget to do this, been there and had the T shirt several times. A manual safety is far better although you can get the auto safety taken off.

 

You can shoot clays with light weight guns, use one myself on occasions, as already mentioned the Hull comp X range of cartridges are very soft recoiling which is good for the shoulder and a friend does use the Beretta ultra light, (very light gun) but only uses comp X in it.

 

Again as already mentioned you can build your muscles up to enable one to get used to the weight by practising dry mounting the gun for around 10 mins a day.

 

The solid butt plates tend to push the recoil to the should more than the ones with a soft butt pad, the hard ones can be changed at additional cost to after market pads. I like the newer 525's as they come with the soft recoil pad rather than the curved solid butt plate that used to be fitted.

 

I used to have the SP1 in both field and sporter and much preferred the sporter, they are similar guns, but there are differences between them.

[hawkfanz]

wots with this rec oil thing,i can shoot 100 plus 28g carts from my 6lb 3oz 20b with no problems,the only time i have noticed recoil is useing my game lanber 12g with 32 and 36 gram eley hi speed steel,and im not a gym guy,,am 67 with one leg been shooting for over 50 years...am i going wrong somewhere?

[HDAV]

been shooting for over 50 years...am i going wrong somewhere?

it probably wore off 40 years ago....

[hawkfanz]

nice one hd or i might be brain dead by now,but i,ll be out in yorkshire tomorrow with 32g carts for my 12g but will have 20g as back up in case beretta breaks down.forgot to mention it will be a 110 mile drive each way to shoot blacks,but im retired an i enjoy what i do so i dont give a damn.

Edited December 6, 2016 by hawkfanz

[Mr.C]

nice one hd or i might be brain dead by now,but i,ll be out in yorkshire tomorrow with 32g carts for my 12g but will have 20g as back up in case beretta breaks down.forgot to mention it will be a 110 mile drive each way to shoot blacks,but im retired an i enjoy what i do so i dont give a damn.

Only hope I'm in the same position when I can eventually retire.

I respect your attitude sir.

[Konor]

I had a trap dude super gooey recoil pad fitted to both a light,heavy recoiling Austrian 16 bore side by side and also my sons 7lb classic doubles 20 bore skeet gun.After installing you could put 100 1 oz loads through either gun in a short space of time and feel no discomfort. A 7 lb 12 bore over and under with such a pad might be an option or perhaps a light gas operated semi auto 12 bore eg beretta 303 391 etc. I would try out as many options as you can and let your experiences guide you.

[flashgordon]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

Its reassuring to hear that with repeated gun mounts practicing at home my arms will get used to the weight.

 

There doesn't seem to be much support for buying a 7lb gun? I'm not a particularly unusual shape. 5ft11, 11 stone.

 

With all that in mind I am probably more inclined to revert to my original thoughts to get either the Browning B525 or Beretta Silver Pigeon I.

 

I've shot with both in sporter versions and the SP seems to be a little more on the lighter side which would probably suit me better. I guess it's not the most exciting option but as many of you have said I need a year or two to find out what works for me and get some serious practice in. At the moment my sum experience is based on about six one-hour lessons which is nowhere near enough time to truly judge things.

[Wingman]

My advice is don't worry about the brand but buy a gun that fits. When I returned to the sport a few years ago I bought a lovely Beretta 686 I didn't shoot it just picked it up from the rack mounted it and bought it, because I wanted a beretta . I shot badly with it and got frustrated, but just persisted. I ended up taking a few lessons and the instructor noticed straight away that the gun didn't fit. I ended up getting rid of it and bought my Winchester not because I wanted a Winchester but it was the gun that fitted me best in my price bracket. A friend of mine who is a fantastic shot uses a Bettinsoli nothing wrong with them at all but still a relatively cheap gun, but my point is that he uses it because it works not because of the brand or model.

 

So my advice is dont rush, try loads, and buy from somewhere that can advice you properly on gunfit.

 

And most importantly of all enjoy the sport!!

Edited December 7, 2016 by Wingman

[wymberley]

Unless the bruising was actually in the shoulder pocket (I'm 5' 11" and used to weigh 11 stone, have fired all sorts over nigh on 60 years and have never bruised there) it's worth having a look at Post #8 before buying anything and if the answer is,'yes', find out why. More often than not that is where bruising occurs and is down to a badly fitting gun or, particularly, a bad mount.

[ChrisPCarter]

If a gun has a solid plastic or wood butt pad it's probably a light game gun designed for carrying around a field all day.

You'll soon get used to holding a heavier one for clay shooting as you're just not used to holding something heavy out at arms length right now.

In a few weeks of regular use you'll not notice it at all.

If you put a 100 shells through a light game gun in a few minutes you'll really know about it, where one 8lb plus absorbs a lot of the recoil.

A heavier gun is also steadier to swing so it has benefits.

If you get on with the Browning 525 then take a look at a 30" Miroku MK38 Sporter it's a fantastic all round gun.

They are basically the same thing and Miroku make Browning guns at their factory in Japan.

Personally I think their own guns are better quality and better finished but I'm biased lol

You might even get a used Grade 5 version depending on your budget - looks like a £4K Browning and can be had for £1500 ish.

[flashgordon]

The bruising was specifically in the shoulder pocket, where the butt of the gun was. I only had that on the one occasion I asked to shoot with a B525 Lightweight, which I think is about 6.5lbs? Looking back on the experience that probably is too light for me. If I was going to go for a lighter gun then 7lb seems comfortable to me.

[ChrisPCarter]

I think when you're new to it you will get battered a bit as you're not used to mounting the gun perfectly every time and different guns take some getting used to.

I think you get used to it physically and also stop being scared of the gun and flinching, reacting to it etc.

I used a recoil pad in my clay vest for a while but I don't need it anymore and it just gets in the way.

Now I can shoot almost anything all day long and not feel bruised or tired.

 

The only exception is a round of clays with my ill-fitting AYA SBS which nearly knocks me on my back after a hundred fast 28 gram shells lol

It's too light and too short in the stock for that kind of thing so it was a one off!

[wymberley]

The bruising was specifically in the shoulder pocket, where the butt of the gun was. I only had that on the one occasion I asked to shoot with a B525 Lightweight, which I think is about 6.5lbs? Looking back on the experience that probably is too light for me. If I was going to go for a lighter gun then 7lb seems comfortable to me.