Proxy Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Hi all, Just looking for some help about which breeds, I'll just tell you what land I shoot on. I've started shooting ducks this month and I love it, I've only shot on flight ponds but next year I plan on decoying on medium ish lakes nothing massive or big, and start shooting on rivers mostly slow current, I'm going to be shooting pheasants, woodcock, pigeon mostly rough ground and rabbits .. I firstly was on the route of getting a springer spaniel, but one of my mates offered a pup from his litter, these pups are black Cocker spaniels there all registered and the bitch grandparents are FTCH among others.. he said he'd give me one for free, I said I'd think about it.. the bitch herself is working and is very muscular compared to a springer.. her shoulders are big, now I'm not sure if the pup would suit my shooting.. Also this would be my first gundog.. I herd there hard enough to train.. I have a run (12ft long 3ft wide 6foot high) and kennel setup. as she will have to be on her own as I work! Any ideas Edited January 20, 2017 by Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsonicnat Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 This will start some fun.. Strong dog for marsh,but, cockers work hard,but can be mischevous. Lab bitch easy to train,,you will not be disapointed either.. Good luck which ever way you jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Cheers for the reply! As for ducks mainly looking for a dog to scare them or spook them only time I'd need them to retrieve is when I do shoot a duck, I will start decoying later on next year but the lakes are very small and I don't think a springer or cocker would struggle as I know the labs are very good swimmers! I know a lab would be perfect but I can't get two dogs as my work schedule is messed up and getting one pup fits right at the moment! Just looking for an all rounder basically! I have two other family pets so I guess the pup should be fine with the other two! Also I'd be shooting inland lakes not Marshes or anything yet! Edited January 21, 2017 by Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Its a difficut choice anytime. With an offer of a pup for free it makes it more difficult as it is tempting to go for the free pup because it is free. Is the bitch strong enough and big enough to retrieve all game you will shoot. If you shoot duck, will you ever shoot geese. If so will the pup grow big and strong enough to retrieve them. What is the pups Sire like, as even if the bitch is sturdy they could take after the Sire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 labrador, or a big old fashioned springer Cockers have their uses....I just struggle to think of one that the two breeds mentioned previoulsy will not do better though.....oh I guess they eat less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Its a difficut choice anytime. With an offer of a pup for free it makes it more difficult as it is tempting to go for the free pup because it is free. Is the bitch strong enough and big enough to retrieve all game you will shoot. If you shoot duck, will you ever shoot geese. If so will the pup grow big and strong enough to retrieve them. What is the pups Sire like, as even if the bitch is sturdy they could take after the Sire. Cheers lads Will not be shooting geese if I did I would go with lads with dogs to retrieve them there isn't many geese where I am.. just wondering I seen some sire, but a lot of the dogs were FTCH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) U are opening a can of worms, and everyone will have their favourites. Personally a lab has been bred for hundreds of years to do exactly this, and they have the added bonus of usually being fairly easy to train/handle. A spaniel either ess or cocker wouyld probably also handle this quite easily with the right training, the 1 thing i will say is the coat on spaniels is not as suited for water work esp in/out and sitting about, they will tend to shiver and get cold. Can be easily sorted with a neoprene jacket for working but u really also need a towelling jacket for afterwards too as hard to towel dry fully the towelling jackets work a treat thou.for afterwards Personally again i'm not a massive fan of a lot of modern FTCH breeding, some modern FT's the dog are so well trained/advanced, wot there expected to do has very little relevance to genuine working/shooting dogs. Not unusual to see dogs with 30-40++ ftch's in pedigree, how relevant they are back in the 4/5 generation is debatable thou U also tend to find the pedigrees FTCH heavy on only sires side so no telling how good or bad the bitches are being put to them. Some heavily FT bred spaniels can be a bit 'hot' sometimes not as big an issue with labs (infact more the other way dogs sticking to u and not working under there own inative) Some modern FT labs have rubbish coats (almost more like a spaniels) and not ideal for a duck dog usually also have skinny tails and snipey heads, so i'd go for a more solid lab with wide head and decent otter tail I'd just go for a more old fashioned working/beating line bred pup with not too much recent FTCH, wether spaniel or lab but ur labs is probably a better bet. I'm probably the only person on here, but if i know the lab/owner/breeder well and its line/ancestors have workied till a decent age i'm not even that bothered about health testing/hip scoring Wot ever pup/breed u go for i'd advise to get a lesson or go to a training day with a decent trainer, makes the world of difference esp as a novice, far easier to learn the right way instead of constantly trying to fix the mistakes that u've caused. its really not hard to train a dog to an average working standard Edited January 21, 2017 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just to add, dunno where u are in the country but would be well worth travelling throu to that N Wales training day that big bird? is advertising here or something similar. Even if u are dogless/or pup too young would be well worth asking if u can go along and observe/throw dummies etc, the trainer is excellent himself and some of the folk on that thread who are also attending always come across on here as very experienced/knowledgable handlers. Just watch the drills/retrieves they run and watch the problems in other folk dogs and how to solve them as no doubt u will encounter some or possibly nip them in the bud early as u've already seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Cheers Scotlad I'm in Ireland and I'm not sure if there's much trainers, I've looked into getting a lab but there not really suited for rough ground in Ireland, I will definitely get a lab in a few years just doesn't really suit at the moment, the breeder (I know him well) said he'd give me a bit of training. Not sure though if the cocker would be good for water I've never seen a cocker swim but I herd there great, just looking for a good all rounder dog that's does everything really, Any ideas lads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 To me a lab will do anything, i beat and shoot over mine s well as pick up. Any lab that won't enter cover its a waste of time, they won't needesly demolish cover the way a spaniel will but any decent lab should enter cover either on command or if there is scent there. Sometimes these skinny modernFT bred labs with rubbish coats can be bad for not entering cover but most old fashioned 1's will do it no bother Dunno wot rough ground u have in ireland but doubt it is any rougher than some of places i work my dogs (brairs or whins, rashes) and both my spaniel or labs all enter it no probs. I've seen my labs in cover that some (poor) spaniels have came out and not went back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 If you are not stuck on a pure bred springer cross labrador are highly rated by many. Often advertised as springadors. They need to be a first cross though to working parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Well if your rough shooting you want a spaniel simple now before the lab men step in heres why if your on ground like me ie heather, goarse(whin bushes) long brown grass brambles plantins and ponds spaniel is what you want,, finding a lab which will really hunt and bush and i dont mean stick their nose in,,is nigh impossible great retreiving and sitting flushing etc where as your spaniel will be in thru like a bull in a china shop springer cocker will both do what you want all day long,my self i use cockers on pheasant wood cock,flight ponds pigeons and let me assure you she loves the nite flights at the pond swims no bother and rem at the pond the ducks wont be far away 20/30 yds from where your standing so its not like a foreshore where a lab is a must,,horses for coarses but get a spaniel and if you can get a good cocker free break his arm it will do all you need no problem...... Edited January 21, 2017 by millrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Well if your rough shooting you want a spaniel simple now before the lab men step in heres why if your on ground like me ie heather, goarse(whin bushes) long brown grass brambles plantins and ponds spaniel is what you want,, finding a lab which will really hunt and bush and i dont mean stick their nose in,,is nigh impossible great retreiving and sitting flushing etc where as your spaniel will be in thru like a bull in a china shop springer cocker will both do what you want all day long,my self i use cockers on pheasant wood cock,flight ponds pigeons and let me assure you she loves the nite flights at the pond swims no bother and rem at the pond the ducks wont be far away 20/30 yds from where your standing so its not like a foreshore where a lab is a must,,horses for coarses but get a spaniel and if you can get a good cocker free break his arm it will do all you need no problem......Cheers millrace Just getting into ducks so starting small lakes wise, ponds and walk up shooting no forshores or anything just yet, how does your cocker swim? Edited January 21, 2017 by Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) As i said earlier everyone has there own ideas. I work my spaniels and labs together and have never had any problem getting my labs to flush birds or to peg birds in thick cover and i'll be working the exact same cover as u just across the water.1 of my labs coursed/pegged a strong cock thru thick brairs yest all u could see twas the brairs moving and errupting every now and again. If i only could take 1 dog out rough shooting it honestly would just be a flip of the coin job, i doubt my springer will flush any more birds than my labs would. And i've seen plenty of rubbish spaniels that won't hit cover too, including some FT 1's, 1 time on a training day the handlers wouldn't work there spaniels in nettles and i ended up walking throw the things up to my armpits Ps i'm not really a lab man, as got labs, hpr and springer in kennels and all have their strong/weak points, and hopefully will always have room for the 3 styles/breeds,, but for me a lab is just more versitile bit of a jack of all trades althou thee is slight trade off with that Ps Not trying to make my labs out as wonder dogs as there not, but most of the proper old fashioned working labs in my local area work cover no bother. But i have seen the usless modern labs tip toe around thistles too Flushing point of 1 drive today would be 1-2 acres off solid whins with only 2 rides cut throu it, beating line is 90% labs. And plenty of solid whin bankings/faces i work dogs throu I can think off a few drives on 1 large shoot where the furthest away pickers up will be in a whole hillside of scrubby knee/waist high black thorn.which is the worst cover i've ever worked and really hard on the dogs too |Sometimes i find the thick coats on labs actually handle the real bad stuff better Edited January 21, 2017 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Cheers millrace Just getting into ducks so starting small lakes wise, ponds and walk up shooting no forshores or anything just yet, how does your cocker swim? Cheers lads for the replys lads anyone have any other info I should consider, going to see the cocker bitch tomorrow see how she hunts. Edited January 22, 2017 by Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) How does she swim.....like an otter....lol she loves the pond spots the ducks in the air before me...lol every dog has its merits and if trained for what "you" need will make excellent gundogs....i went for cockers to be bit different as no one else had 1,ive got a good garden but not lab size and a springer would just a tad big also mine are pets for the kids so here again i thought cockers wd be great and they are mine are happy sleepin at the window but get the wellies and there out the door before me Ive ceen good and bad dogs of every breed cpl wks ago guy came to beat with a cocker before he went to trial now it was trained to perfection but he wd let it go far enough to flush the birds or called it back when on a scent it did a ditch with him walking about 10ft away nothin there....springer runs in 4 burds got out cause the springer was huntin...... What ever you get train it on the ground your going to shoot dont go to nice flat fields and then wonder why when you get to the thick stuff it has no interest in going in....good luck with your choice... Edited January 22, 2017 by millrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 How does she swim.....like an otter....lol she loves the pond spots the ducks in the air before me...lol every dog has its merits and if trained for what "you" need will make excellent gundogs....i went for cockers to be bit different as no one else had 1,ive got a good garden but not lab size and a springer would just a tad big also mine are pets for the kids so here again i thought cockers wd be great and they are mine are happy sleepin at the window but get the wellies and there out the door before me Ive ceen good and bad dogs of every breed cpl wks ago guy came to beat with a cocker before he went to trial now it was trained to perfection but he wd let it go far enough to flush the birds or called it back when on a scent it did a ditch with him walking about 10ft away nothin there....springer runs in 4 burds got out cause the springer was huntin...... What ever you get train it on the ground your going to shoot dont go to nice flat fields and then wonder why when you get to the thick stuff it has no interest in going in....good luck with your choice... Lol millrace she sounds good in water! How does the cocker compare to the springer in cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Very similar springers tend to hunt all cover,, cockers being bit smarter scent it first....lol for what you describe they will both be fine you just have to watch your dog , get to know how it hunts and most if all trust it.....it knows better than you if somethin is there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Cheers millrace, Have to get when of those neoprene jackets, have you ever used one of those before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 No never used one, we shoot at dusk for evening flight and its usually a quick 20mins of ducks coming in so shes usually busy retreving from the pond or huntin runners in the rushes so not much chance of gttn cold but always toweled down at home before laying at fire for rest of nite.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Thanks millrace Due to me working 9-5 she'll have to be in a run and kennel I made the run it's 12ft long and 4ft wide, I'm taking off a week or two to be with her, do you think she'd be okay in the kennel and run? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) A proper Labrador without hesitation. If you want something different, then a Chesapeake. There is a quotation about those in the book, 'Just Dogs' " He had so much fun in water as any person I have known. You didn't have to throw a stick in the water to get him to go in . Of course he would bring back a stick to you if you ever did throw one in. He would even have brought back a piano if you had thrown one in." by James Thurber. On edit. if you can pick up a copy of Just Dogs, then do. If you like dogs, then you will love this book. Edited January 23, 2017 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks millrace Due to me working 9-5 she'll have to be in a run and kennel I made the run it's 12ft long and 4ft wide, I'm taking off a week or two to be with her, do you think she'd be okay in the kennel and run? Cheers Do u get back at lunch times? Usually young pups need fed 4 or so times a day so quite a long day for an 8 week old pup, even if ur mate can keep it till 12 weeks would make a difference feed wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxy Posted January 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks scotlad I'm getting someone to come back at 2 and stay for hour or two, I'll be walking him in the morning and evening when he gets a bit bigger, just for feed what do you give your pups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Its not so much the company althou that helps but just to space the meals out regularly, never had a cocker but with the small size u might even feed it 4-5 ties a day at the start Usuallly wot the breeder feeds, most of the bigger brands will be decent quality nowadays, usually keep on puppy food till 9-12 months sometimes i change onto the adolescence? food sometimes i just keep on puppy. Don't scrimp on the quality of ur puppy food,,feed the puppy well and buy good quality food, as that will iset it up for rest of its life as that is the most important growing stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.