1st rat to jump from the sinking ship ?

[UKPoacher]

The way the EU operates is for rich countries to financially support poor countries and tie them into a trading agreement ensuring that they have to buy all their goods from the rich countries. So the rich countries should get most of their money back and also benefit from outsourcing production into areas of cheap labour. Problem for the UK is that it doesn't manufacture enough to make that worthwhile and the generous benefits system and health system are being exploited by rules designed to allow cheap labour to flow freely, not unemployed people or health tourists.

 

Whilst like communism the ideal is worthy, the reality is that human traits don't allow it to work as it should. There is a power block involving Poland, Hungary and other central European countries who don't want the rule of Brussells imposed upon them, but are happy to accept the EU subsidies. The Germans don't want to keep bailing out Greece because Greece doesn't and never will buy enough German goods to redress the balance. Same can be said of Spain and Portugal. Of the 28 countries in the EU, the UK are losing out the most. They pay in far more than they get out and are suffering in other ways as shown above. The buying power of the UK along with its fishing grounds and banking / services sector makes it the only country that could walk out of the EU without major economic disaster. That is why Theresa May can be so bullish in laying down the red lines to Brussels.

[panoma1]

It has been covered before. Theresa May has said that the UK will honour any agreements made prior to Brexit, but will not contribute one penny to the EU after that except for programs they choose to contribute to. There have been various comments made by EU and national officials about the amount that the UK should pay will be in the region of £50 billion. But nobody has a clue as to the real amount.

 

Last week a British official made mention of reclaiming the EU assets that the UK has contributed to and will not have the benefit of in future; The EU HQs in Brussels and Strasbourg are worth £ hundreds of millions, the infrastructure that the EU has paid for in the form of roads, dams and factories would run to £ billions.

 

This is a consideration should Scotland ever decide to leave the Union?

[Rewulf]

It has been covered before. Theresa May has said that the UK will honour any agreements made prior to Brexit, but will not contribute one penny to the EU after that except for programs they choose to contribute to. There have been various comments made by EU and national officials about the amount that the UK should pay will be in the region of £50 billion. But nobody has a clue as to the real amount.

 

Last week a British official made mention of reclaiming the EU assets that the UK has contributed to and will not have the benefit of in future; The EU HQs in Brussels and Strasbourg are worth £ hundreds of millions, the infrastructure that the EU has paid for in the form of roads, dams and factories would run to £ billions.

 

This is a consideration should Scotland ever decide to leave the Union?

 

I wouldnt think so,what we paid into the union is done and dusted.

And ,in the highly unlikely event of Scotland removing itself from the union,no British Government is going to threaten ,or try to enforce such a measure.

Independence for Scotland would cause financial ruin for them,and austerity, the like of which ,would probably see them asking to come back within a few years,after they have kicked the SNP into obscurity.

[12gauge82]

The way the EU operates is for rich countries to financially support poor countries and tie them into a trading agreement ensuring that they have to buy all their goods from the rich countries. So the rich countries should get most of their money back and also benefit from outsourcing production into areas of cheap labour. Problem for the UK is that it doesn't manufacture enough to make that worthwhile and the generous benefits system and health system are being exploited by rules designed to allow cheap labour to flow freely, not unemployed people or health tourists.

 

Whilst like communism the ideal is worthy, the reality is that human traits don't allow it to work as it should. There is a power block involving Poland, Hungary and other central European countries who don't want the rule of Brussells imposed upon them, but are happy to accept the EU subsidies. The Germans don't want to keep bailing out Greece because Greece doesn't and never will buy enough German goods to redress the balance. Same can be said of Spain and Portugal. Of the 28 countries in the EU, the UK are losing out the most. They pay in far more than they get out and are suffering in other ways as shown above. The buying power of the UK along with its fishing grounds and banking / services sector makes it the only country that could walk out of the EU without major economic disaster. That is why Theresa May can be so bullish in laying down the red lines to Brussels.

Since brexit began I am fairly knowledgeable on how the European union works (sometimes ignorance is bliss) but I've got to say that is one of the best plain English explanations I've seen, anyone on here who still feels we should remain should read it as it's bang on in an easy to understand format, and us leaves are supposed to be the thick ones too stupid to understand what we voted for. Edited February 22, 2017 by 12gauge82

[400_racer]

It has been covered before. Theresa May has said that the UK will honour any agreements made prior to Brexit, but will not contribute one penny to the EU after that except for programs they choose to contribute to. There have been various comments made by EU and national officials about the amount that the UK should pay will be in the region of £50 billion. But nobody has a clue as to the real amount.

 

Last week a British official made mention of reclaiming the EU assets that the UK has contributed to and will not have the benefit of in future; The EU HQs in Brussels and Strasbourg are worth £ hundreds of millions, the infrastructure that the EU has paid for in the form of roads, dams and factories would run to £ billions. If those were deducted from the Brexit bill the end payment would be considerably less.

 

At the moment there are two camps; the ones scared that Brexit will spread and so are trying to frighten other countries into not following. Those are mainly EU politicians. And another group, mainly politicians in Germany and Italy that is growing in strength. Those people realise that cutting of their nose to spite their face wouldn't be beneficial. The Germans and Italians would lose tens of thousands of jobs in car manufacturing and other engineering and manufacturing industries. They won't let the EU cut the UK off without a tariff free trade deal.

 

Interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning with Stephan Mayer, an MP in Angela Merkel's government where he almost said exactly this. Stating Germany export over 500,000 cars a year to the UK, and it would be silly of them to jeopardise this by punishing the UK in Brexit terms/agreements. He also wouldnt be drawn on any exit fees due, saying calculating any fee would only be possible once negations had started. Pretty much the exact opposite to what Junker wants i.e. fee upfront then start negations.

 

Heres the iplayer link, was on at 08.10:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08fgd4b

[panoma1]

 

I wouldnt think so,what we paid into the union is done and dusted.

And ,in the highly unlikely event of Scotland removing itself from the union,no British Government is going to threaten ,or try to enforce such a measure.

Independence for Scotland would cause financial ruin for them,and austerity, the like of which ,would probably see them asking to come back within a few years,after they have kicked the SNP into obscurity.

 

Has not UK money paid for infrastructure in Scotland? if Scotland want independence from the Union why should Scotland not reimburse the rest of the UK for the infrastructure the UK as a whole has paid for?

 

I use this thought, not with any anti Scotland feeling.....merely as something for both the UK and the Scottish electorate to consider, should Scotland buy the SNP's next attempt at an independence referendum!

[Rewulf]

 

Has not UK money paid for infrastructure in Scotland? if Scotland want independence from the Union why should Scotland not reimburse the rest of the UK for the infrastructure the UK as a whole has paid for?

 

I use this thought, not with any anti Scotland feeling.....merely as something for both the UK and the Scottish electorate to consider, should Scotland buy the SNP's next attempt at an independence referendum!

 

Yes it has ,and Im with you on the sentiment.

But whilst Scotland is still part of the UK ,thats UK money ,spent on UK infrastructure (And Scotland and Wales have some excellently well maintained roads,amongst other nice building projects ) so to talk about reimbursing us after a possible devolution, is just adding ammunition to the nationalists magazine.

At the moment Ms Krankie and co are making a lot of hot air noises,but knowing full well they wouldnt win an out referendum,they seek to provoke and antagonize London, who occasionally respond to it ,but are getting wise to the game.

The idea being to create more anti English sentiment = more votes for 'out'

The question we have to ask ourselves ,do we want Scotland to leave?

Indeed ,does Scotland want to leave?

It doesnt take a particularly clever person to see that they,and quite possibly us too,would be worse off.

[UKPoacher]

 

Interesting interview on Radio 4 this morning with Stephan Mayer, an MP in Angela Merkel's government where he almost said exactly this. Stating Germany export over 500,000 cars a year to the UK, and it would be silly of them to jeopardise this by punishing the UK in Brexit terms/agreements. He also wouldnt be drawn on any exit fees due, saying calculating any fee would only be possible once negations had started. Pretty much the exact opposite to what Junker wants i.e. fee upfront then start negations.

 

Heres the iplayer link, was on at 08.10:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08fgd4b

 

I'm not as daft as I look.

 

The Germans in particular are getting increasingly worried about the hard line tactics employed by Junckers and Co. Once the UK leaves the Single Market the Germans could be hit by a double whammy. For one thing the current tariffs imposed on Korean, American and Japanese cars won't apply to UK imports so those vehicle may well be significantly cheaper in the UK than now. Also, if the EU have their way the UK will be hit by tariffs for everything they export to the EU, and of course the UK are highly likely to impose similar tariffs on goods coming the other way, making cars made in the EU significantly more expensive than they are now.

 

The Italians have similar worries given that their virtual EU wide monopoly on cheap white goods such as fridges and washing machines would be eroded in the large UK market where Samsung and the like are hampered and made more expensive by EU tariffs.