Electrical Air rifles ?

[Salop Matt]

Okay guys, electric guns.......... To me this has a little voice in the back of my mind saying that they are gimicks and full of pitfulls !

So can anyone answer a few questions for me ?

 

* If the battery is flat is that the end of your shooting untill a new battery is added or charged?

 

* If it rains when out hunting with a electrical gun is it likely to do a short circut and self destruct ?

 

* Are they prone to electrical programing problems ?

 

* What infomation does an electrical gun give you ?

 

* What control do you have through the electrics ?

 

* What are the pros and cons of electric rifles ?

 

Cheers

[TaxiDriver]

Are we talking about the likes of Daystate here ? (I've seen you on the Owners forum)

[Dekers]

Daystate themselves have apparently addressed all these questions some years back.

 

Frankly I think it is stupid.

 

Just exactly why do you need a rifle that requires a key to turn it on?

 

I haven't noticed anyone else in the air rifle/rimfire/centrefire/shotgun world jumping on this dumb bandwagon yet!

 

[Maidment78]

I have a mk3 and have had it for about three years and charged it one, never had an issue and the fact it is electric has never worried me and rain has not hurt it one bit I have been out in a fair bit.

 

It has some bonuses too, if you release the safety and do not fire after set time it will reset and you have to cycle the switch again to arm it, it also controls the air flow and has ridiculous consistency shot after shot.

 

I like them, some might not, one major bonus is it beeps when it is out of air required to hit the full power mark.

[The Duncan]

Be warned! Electrical airguns do attract lightning. Apparently, 30% of electronic airgun owners get struck by lightning whilst carrying their rifles.

87.6% of statistics are made up on the spot

[Ratsmasher]

Be warned! Electrical airguns do attract lightning. Apparently, 30% of electronic airgun owners get struck by lightning whilst carrying their rifles.

87.6% of statistics are made up on the spot

[Albion]

Can't imagine any electrics would give much improvement over any regulated PCP. I never shoulder my HW100 and think, "****, I wish I had a solenoid to reset that safety for me."

[The Duncan]

Can't imagine any electrics would give much improvement over any regulated PCP. I never shoulder my HW100 and think, "****, I wish I had a solenoid to reset that safety for me."

Me neither!

[Dekers]

I have a mk3 and have had it for about three years and charged it one, never had an issue and the fact it is electric has never worried me and rain has not hurt it one bit I have been out in a fair bit.

 

It has some bonuses too, if you release the safety and do not fire after set time it will reset and you have to cycle the switch again to arm it, it also controls the air flow and has ridiculous consistency shot after shot.

 

I like them, some might not, one major bonus is it beeps when it is out of air required to hit the full power mark.

 

 

That equates to my Mk3 man missing quarry, because when he squeezes the trigger nothing happens.. which part of an automatic turn OFF is a bonus when in the field?

 

ATB!

[Maidment78]

Like I said not for everyone but out of all the air rifles I have owned it is by bar far the best.

[Salop Matt]

I dont think they are my cup of tea but just wanted to see what others thought !

[bruno22rf]

I cannot see how any responsible shooter can venture out in the field without his electric gun sparking away under his arm.In my case the benefits are undeniable because i couldnt hit a cows rrrrr with a banjo without my Maplins Mega zapper.The only downside,i find, is that with electricity prices being so high-I simply cannot afford to shoot much during the day and often find myself wandering around in the wee dark hours using the cheaper economy seven option. My wife is looking into changing suppliers and getting our gas and leccy from the same company simply so that I can get out of the house more often and allow her more time with her personal trainer.

Edited April 22, 2011 by bruno22rf

[Dekers]

I cannot see how any responsible shooter can venture out in the field without his electric gun sparking away under his arm.In my case the benefits are undeniable because i couldnt hit a cows rrrrr with a banjo without my Maplins Mega zapper.The only downside,i find, is that with electricity prices being so high-I simply cannot afford to shoot much during the day and often find myself wandering around in the wee dark hours using the cheaper economy seven option. My wife is looking into changing suppliers and getting our gas and leccy from the same company simply so that I can get out of the house more often and allow her more time with her personal trainer.

 

 

I have a site where we shoot under a line of Electric pylons, you can hear the fizz all the time...a free charge perhaps!

[Gnome of the Woods]

1Yes

2 Not anymore

3 Only when new version come out, all sorted under warranty

4 Depends on the model, most none. The ones with the screen lots of info

5 Mainly power setting but also turning alarms in and off

6 pros- Very consistant, uses very little air & a marvel of British engineering

Cons - very expensive new, limited DIY repair options & most people with think you are making up for having a small ****!

 

Once the the flaws are sorted in new models they are spot on.

But you really are tied to daystate and a couple of agents for servicing.

If you forget to charge it or lose the key NO Shooting!

 

Not for me but I do admire the technology!

[Catweazle]

I don't like the idea of electronic rifles, but I can see a benefit.

 

Recently a forensic lab took parts out and tampered with a PCP air rifle to make it go over power and secure a conviction. The Judge in the case allowed it to stand.

 

An electronic rifle, correctly designed, would be more difficult for the forensic labs to tamper with.

[Dekers]

I don't like the idea of electronic rifles, but I can see a benefit.

 

Recently a forensic lab took parts out and tampered with a PCP air rifle to make it go over power and secure a conviction. The Judge in the case allowed it to stand.

 

An electronic rifle, correctly designed, would be more difficult for the forensic labs to tamper with.

 

 

Come on Catweazle, did you hear that down the pub? A bit more information please!

 

If that is correct then the guys Brief need shooting himself, anyone can make a PCP go over 12ft lb with a bit of tampering!

[Catweazle]

Come on Catweazle, did you hear that down the pub? A bit more information please!

 

If that is correct then the guys Brief need shooting himself, anyone can make a PCP go over 12ft lb with a bit of tampering!

 

For you information I have copied a post from a friend of the man who was convicted at Luton Crown Court. The links are to photos of the original notes supplied by Key Forensic Services Ltd, and were used as evidence in the case. The notes clearly show that they removed the valve return spring as they thought it was "too strong" and was restricting air flow through the valve. After the spring was removed the rifle became "capable" and a conviction was secured.

 

 

 

 

 

These are pictures relating to the testing of Ian's air rifle, the Phoenix, at Key Forensic Lab in Warrington. They clearly show the rifle in a dismantled state.

 

Under each picture I have transcribed the notes by the testers, because they're a little difficult to read in some places.

 

As you can see, the testers found the rifle to be sub 12 fpe initially. The notes relate to them reducing the pressure and removing the valve return spring because they said it was preventing air reaching the barrel.

 

The notes also show that the rifle was found with a pellet in the chamber (an in-line magazine) which they removed and discarded before testing with what they describe as "evidence" pellets and "lab" pellets.

 

You can also see from the chrono readings that the removal of the valve return spring caused the rifle to malfunction - the velocity readings were all over the place. But it allowed them to conclude that the rifle was "capable".

 

Lionel

 

[Clubshot]

With some Electronic Daystates there is a Service Pack that Can electronically control power

 

And it is known about - by Home Office / Police

 

Supposed to only be in hands of Daystate and Service Engineer's

 

 

Over the years We have had them on the Ranges @ Lea Valley

By Competition Shooters as was thee Gun to use

Plus We have Sponsered Shooters

 

Not many around these day's :unsure:

 

BOB/R

[Dekers]

For you information I have copied a post from a friend of the man who was convicted at Luton Crown Court. The links are to photos of the original notes supplied by Key Forensic Services Ltd, and were used as evidence in the case. The notes clearly show that they removed the valve return spring as they thought it was "too strong" and was restricting air flow through the valve. After the spring was removed the rifle became "capable" and a conviction was secured.

 

This obviously does not show the whole story because it makes no sense....and I have to say I'm a bit lost anyway.....

..... with 180 bar it got about 10ft lb, and with 100 bar it got about 30ft lb, well someone has

obviously been playing before if this is correct, the guy is either a wrongun or his Brief was a heap of ****.

 

I can make ANY PCP go over 12ft lb with just one small alteration, the rifle was the rifle, the Police or any Lab cannot take any gun apart and play unless it is obvious someone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

 

The gun is the gun, that's what the guy had and that's what he was using, if they cannot make it go over 12ft lb AS IT STANDS, he is in the Clear, like I have said, anyone can take a PCP apart and rebuild it over 12ft lb, and like I have also said what sort of Brief did this guy have.....this smells VERY VERY VERY strange!

 

So.... JUST WHAT WAS HIS DEFENCE??

Edited April 22, 2011 by Dekers

[Catweazle]

This obviously does not show the whole story because it makes no sense....and I have to say I'm a bit lost anyway.....

..... with 180 bar it got about 10ft lb, and with 100 bar it got about 30ft lb, well someone has

obviously been playing before if this is correct, the guy is either a wrongun or his Brief was a heap of ****.

 

It's common for a PCP to have more power from a lower pressure fill, the lower pressure allows the knock open valve to open for longer and power increases, if you increase the fill pressure high enough the hammer won't be able to open it at all and power will be zero. He wasn't a "wrong 'un", he had expert legal advice and BASC were involved too. The problem is the word "capable" in the law, it's not properly defined and in no place does it say that the rifle has to be tested as it was when confiscated. As you can imagine, this has caused a hell of a stir in airgun circles, although you won't find it on AirgunBBS as they have banned the subject.

 

I can make ANY PCP go over 12ft lb with just one small alteration, the rifle was the rifle, the Police or any Lab cannot take any gun apart and play unless it is obvious someone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

There is nothing in the law to say they can't take it apart and adjust it.

 

The gun is the gun, that's what the guy had and that's what he was using, if they cannot make it go over 12ft lb AS IT STANDS, he is in the Clear, like I have said, anyone can take a PCP apart and rebuild it over 12ft lb, and like I have also said what sort of Brief did this guy have.....this smells VERY VERY VERY strange!

 

Sadly he's not in the clear, the law is poorly written and unclear.

 

So.... JUST WHAT WAS HIS DEFENCE??

 

There is no defence , it's an absolute offence.

 

For more info have a look at this 14 page thread on AirgunForum. You will need to sign in. If you do a search for "Luton" you'll find more threads too.

 

http://www.airgunforum.net/agf/index.php?showtopic=57032&st=300

[Dekers]

Sorry chap, something here isn't right!

 

Let me get this straight...

 

SO..what you are saying is the Police confiscated a totally original untampered with sub 12ft lb air rifle and took it apart and rebuilt it over 12ft lb! YES or NO?

 

 

 

 

This obviously does not show the whole story because it makes no sense....and I have to say I'm a bit lost anyway.....

..... with 180 bar it got about 10ft lb, and with 100 bar it got about 30ft lb, well someone has

obviously been playing before if this is correct, the guy is either a wrongun or his Brief was a heap of ****.

 

It's common for a PCP to have more power from a lower pressure fill, the lower pressure allows the knock open valve to open for longer and power increases, if you increase the fill pressure high enough the hammer won't be able to open it at all and power will be zero. He wasn't a "wrong 'un", he had expert legal advice and BASC were involved too. The problem is the word "capable" in the law, it's not properly defined and in no place does it say that the rifle has to be tested as it was when confiscated. As you can imagine, this has caused a hell of a stir in airgun circles, although you won't find it on AirgunBBS as they have banned the subject.

 

********, NO STANDARD 12ft lb air rifle delivers 30+ft lb with 100bar fill! If that was the case why would anyone EVER fill to 180 or whatever, my pellet will hardly get out of the barrel at 100bar.

 

I can make ANY PCP go over 12ft lb with just one small alteration, the rifle was the rifle, the Police or any Lab cannot take any gun apart and play unless it is obvious someone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

 

There is nothing in the law to say they can't take it apart and adjust it.

 

********, if that is the case EVERY PCP is illegal!

 

The gun is the gun, that's what the guy had and that's what he was using, if they cannot make it go over 12ft lb AS IT STANDS, he is in the Clear, like I have said, anyone can take a PCP apart and rebuild it over 12ft lb, and like I have also said what sort of Brief did this guy have.....this smells VERY VERY VERY strange!

 

So.... JUST WHAT WAS HIS DEFENCE??

 

 

Don't tell me he just rolled over, this DEFINATELY stinks, what is it that you are not telling?

Edited April 22, 2011 by Dekers

[Catweazle]

Sorry chap, something here isn't right!

 

Let me get this straight...

 

SO..what you are saying is the Police confiscated a totally original untampered with sub 12ft lb air rifle and took it apart and rebuilt it over 12ft lb! YES or NO?

 

Did I write that it was a totally original untampered rifle ? No, I didn't, you made that bit up yourself. What I wrote is that the police confiscated a rifle that was sub 12ft/lb and their forensic labs removed the valve return spring and filled it to 100 bar, in which case the rifle performed outside design parameters, the valve opened for longer than usual due to limited pressure and no return spring, and it produced more power than the legal limit.

 

That's not so difficult to understand is it ?

 

But don't take my word for it, read the documents from the forensic testing lab I linked to earlier, or better still read the thread I linked to on airgunforum.net .

 

 

 

Don't tell me he just rolled over, this DEFINATELY stinks, what is it that you are not telling?

 

There is nothing I'm not telling you, because I'm only writing about what concerns air rifle shooters. I don't care what he had for lunch, whether he was a bad driver, or whether he was an international arms dealer. The fact is that the forensic labs altered his rifle to obtain an over-power reading.

 

I'm sure the defence will be thrilled to hear your pronouncements that the police and the forensic labs weren't allowed to do what they did, and doubtless the Judge and Jury who accepted the evidence will immediately demand a retrial once they know your views.

 

Be quick, don't miss the appeal.

[The Duncan]

but the bottom line still is that apparently the powers investigating the air rifle tampered with it to take it over the limit and then convicted him for it.

It does sound like a load of cods doesn't it?

[Catweazle]

but the bottom line still is that apparently the powers investigating the air rifle tampered with it to take it over the limit and then convicted him for it.

It does sound like a load of cods doesn't it?

 

Did you look at the copies of the forensic labs notes ? Or follow the link to the 14 page thread that has contributions by a man who was called as a witness in the trial ?

 

Thought not.

[The Duncan]

Did you look at the copies of the forensic labs notes ? Or follow the link to the 14 page thread that has contributions by a man who was called as a witness in the trial ?

 

Thought not.

No I didn't. WHere can I find them? I was just going on the written words in this thread.