20citori20

Not to rekindle any arguments, but where did "Will" Charge Too Much get that little green guy holding up the double barrel. Deako, I'm not making fun, but your "it seems I have caused you some offense" response put me in stitches. :laugh: Anyhow, best advice I have ever heard was probably to not eat city pigeons. Exhaust fumes, cigarette butts and oil ridden puddles taint the meat causing severe side effects and addictions in humans

I know this is an old topic, but it's one I have enjoyed exploring for myself. I have always preferred the feel of a 20 to a 12. Of coarse, I also asked myself what I would be giving up if I made the switch, more specifically on larger birds such as fowl. A 2 3/4" shell loaded w/ 7/8oz of 7 1/2's is all I have ever needed to pluck pigeons out of the air to 30 yards (sorry, I don't do conversions ). I have never tried this load with # 6 shot, only because I haven't found the need to deliver any more punch or shoot at a greater distance. I should mention I shoot an improved and modified choke. I believe the true test of the 20's ability was shooting ducks. We are mandated to shoot steel at waterfowl here in the states. Steel is lighter than lead so anything accomplished with it can be considered somewhat less than what can be expected from shooting the same load of lead. Your Wood Pigeon seems to be comparable to our teal. 20 ga. steel in a 2 3/4" load of 4 shot exits the barrel at an astonishing speed of 1400-1500 fps. This is significantly faster than 12 ga., which is usually about 1300 fps. Clean kills are a norm for large and small ducks out to 30 yards. At 35 yards birds will hit the water but clean kills are not the norm. To bring the 20's ballistics (same shot size and number shooting faster) above a 12 gauge shooting 2 3/4" shells all one needs to do is shoot a 3" shell. A 20ga. shooting a 3" shell can do anything a 12 ga. can muster shooting identical shot. Shoot a 3" shell out of the 20 ga. using #2 shot and expect clean kills within 40 yards. I have even killed Giant Canada Geese (weighing in at 12-14 lbs. and having a 6 foot wing span) with both 2 3/4 and 3" shells from a 20. In short, if you’re thinking about shooting a 20 but are afraid of losing something ballistically-don't. I shoot a 20 for most all game and don't plan on ever going back to a 12. Our loads may differ from yours. I also don't compare a 3" 12 ga. shell to a 20 because I have never found the desire to shoot at birds over 40 yards. In my opinion there a few experienced shooters, let alone good shooters, who can consistently produce clean kills beyond the 40 yard marker. The cost is crippled and lost birds, not worth the price to me.

What are the pigeon shell decoys on this web site constructed of (rubber or plastic)? My buddy has some old Wood Pigeon rubber decoys. Once again, an American dollar equals how much of those funny "L's"? Yens, pounds, francs (can't even spell them)….. my last experience with these was 20 years ago! Nice site, wish I had one here with pigeon accessories.

Hmmm? My response from yesterday doesn't show up here. I probably put somewhere it didn't belong! Well, I'll try again. I didn't hunt crows; I set up about a hundred yards from my buddy with goose decoys. They were hunting over decoys and using farm machinery for a blind. They also used an electronic caller. They shot a few, missed a few more, but did better than me. I remember asking if you folks have had any experience with the West Nile Virus in your birds. Primarily crows.

I did some reading to catch up a bit. Noticed a little more info. on crow hunting. I have a good number of crows in the area. I have already been invited on a crow hunt as a matter of fact. It was 10 degrees with 15-25 M.P.H. winds (you'll have to convert that yourselves). Little uncomfortable for 10 to 15 shots. They seem to wise up to the gun in short order too! I've got a lot of typing to do to become an "Ace." I'm curious. Once you achieve such rank, do you ever miss? :*)

Hello friends from abroad. Its been awhile! I moved across the state (Ohio) and had a little problem finding the web page on my new Internet service. Would like to hear about some of your pigeon hunts since the last time we spoke. I have not hunted any pigeons since then but have scouted the new area for prospective sites. This area doesn't hold the number of birds I became accustomed to in western Ohio, but there are opportunities. So, any fantastic days afield since last July?

I don't have anything big enough to handle the tiger! I'll shoot it in the rump with a .22 and let you practice your death grip on it ! I am in the process of trying different shot now. As a matter of fact, I just purchased 7 1/2 and 8 shot today. I wanted 9 shot but couldn't find any. This is obviously much smaller than you prefer. I bought the .410 for doves. I have used factory-loaded 9's in the 20 gauge with great results. Just don't shoot birds inside of 15 yards and outside of 30. With modified and improved chokes I found an adequate number of pellets finding their mark for clean kills. I have watched my buddy’s shoot 7 1/2's in .410 and struggle on a few occasions. One pellet in the bird may or may not be adequate. I'm certain I won't need to go any smaller than 7 1/2 for doves. I will shoot a majority of my shots between 20 and 25 yards with the .410. If I am hitting birds and they are not falling or are often times alive on the ground I do the opposite of most. I decrease shot size creating a denser pattern. Energy difference between these two sizes at this distance is insignificant in my opinion. Number of pellets and shot placement are. More shot and an open choke seem to make bad shooting days and crippled birds diminish significantly. I am in the process of moving so I will only be around on occasion for the next few months. I am fairly certain you would enjoy a more slim line, lighter 20 gauge over a 12. I'm not an expert or a crack shot, but I have no problems killing fat winter mallards out to 30 yards with #4 steel shot using a 20 gauge. These are tough birds with thick skin and lots of fat and plumage. I have even killed geese inside that range. The same load with lead shot would be devastating on pigeons. I would probably use 6 shot on your bigger and some times further Wood Pigeons. Talk to you soon.

I bruised my knee because of you Cranfield! I was sitting here minding my own business, reading your response when I caught the silhouette of a flying pigeon out of the corner of my eye. Reflex had me jump across the room for my gun and a shell and I slammed my knee into the gun safe. I did manage to get off a shot at the second bird crossing. I haven't found a feather among all the plastic and glass yet, but the shot felt good. Maybe the dead bird lies on your end . I too haven't noticed any good clay shooters (sporting) that aren't good feather shooters. There are however, a few trap shooters that are horrible at putting game in the freezer. The event has a good bit of media coverage, but no running cameras that I am aware of. Maybe the final shoot offs are televised? Lord Stafford and his estate? Somehow I get the feeling this guy doesn't mow his own lawn ! I have seen a few clips on TV of this type of shooter. It's almost too much believe. There is a guy over here, or from somewhere, who is a famous skeet shooter. I watched him shoot three or four stations from the hip. He never missed! I shot pigeons yesterday in a dairy lot. These birds haven't been shot at this year so I took my .410. All I have is factory loads, #9 shot 2 1/2." Most shots were 15-20 yards but I shot consistently out to almost 30. I shot a couple birds at 35 but had to run them down so I set my limit at 30. Surprisingly, I wasn't able to notice any difference between a 20 ga. 2 3/4 loaded with 7 1/2's and the .410. Birds just didn't seem to have the ability to fly through a wall of number 9's. One thing I did notice was margin of error. If my follow through or form didn't feel quite right, it ended up being a complete woof (miss). I can usually get a way with some of that shooting a 20. I ended up with 39 birds and newfound respect for the Lil' Gun. At our last unsuccessful shoot one of my buddies brought his .410 loaded with 3" shells comprised of 7 1/2's. He shot a few birds out to 30 yards with no problems. He also had his 20 gauge in the blind! I'll be gone for the next 4 days, so I'll get back with you then. I'm heading for the State Fair. I'm going to call a few guys "bloke's" and see what kind of response I get. You may be liable for a bruised eye too!

True, so true. Hey Cranfield, any of your shooting buddies over here at the Grand National Trap Shooting Competition?

Ah, but all is not lost. Innovation is self-destructive. The more gadgets we collect and sophisticated we become the greater the desire for simplicity. It's apparent in all sports. From hook and worm to fancy crankbaits, longbows to crossbows, single-shots to auto's - with age we all return to what is true, simple and pure. Why? Because it works! Up until yesterday the Mojo Dove was the ultimate killing machine. Unfortunately, the pigeons have somehow learned to "recognize" that Mojo means NO-GO. We killed about 10 birds all afternoon. It was a humbling experience. I think we have fooled all we are going to fool in this population this year. If we hunt them again it will be with real decoys in big numbers with no Mojo. I watched an England pigeon shooting video yesterday. There were a couple "professional pigeon shooters" putting it on. I actually got to see them hunt over Rape and Peas. It's a little different shooting. Most of the birds shot in the video coming to decoys were singles. It's on rare occasion we have a flock of less than 6-10 come in. Wood Pigeons also seem to maintain their flight pattern and turn on the jets after being shot at while Rock Doves scatter in every direction. I saw some plastic full body decoys, shells, telescopic blind poles, dead bird mounting poles and all kinds of goodies that are impossible to find in the states. Well, time to get off here. Good luck!

Have any of you heard of the Mojo Duck? It is simply a plastic duck decoy with an electric motor in which you attach wings (plastic cardboard). The wings simply spin creating a flash. They now make a Mojo Dove. Its wings have white on one side and gray on the other. They run off of a 6-volt battery that lies beneath the decoy. I strung a wire out to the decoy that I feed back to the blind, or hide for you folks, and then added a toggle switch. When I see birds, as far as 400-500 yards away, I switch the decoy on until I see them turn and zero in on it. Then I turn it on and off to represent feeding birds (over here they fly three or four feet, sit down and feed and then repeat the process). Absolutely deadly. There is little doubt that I could kill as many birds with this Mojo and three decoys as a guy with three dozen decoys. I suspect you guys already have something of this sort!?

I suppose we should start another topic, like you suggested, before we get to page 10. It may be wise to note that reloading for me only becomes substantially economical if I buy components by bulk. No fewer than 5000 primers and wads and 8 lbs. of powder- plus good hulls. Bad hulls make for more swearing than reloading . Had another great shoot yesterday totaling 251 birds. I video tapped most of it. Actually, I just pointed the camera over the decoys and reached out of the blind and turned it on when birds were coming! A fair number of the shots took place outside the screen. I'll have a better setup next time. I'm going to miss the shooting when I leave. Hoping there is some activity where I'm heading.

I would certainly think if your shotgun shells can be purchased cheaper in the UK that your components would follow suit. I figure a manufacturer of shells is charging for components and processing. Process your self and save!? Reloading .410 here is not optional except for the filthy rich. They are expensive. About $7.00 for 25. .410 shooters actually seem to be increasing though. At least for dove, skeet and sporting clay shooters who don't compete for cash. I have shot both my 20 and .410 at the blackbird lot and I don't notice any difference out to thirty except for recoil and the weight of my wallet. I'm sure when I have an off day with the .410 it will only seem that much worse. Shoot pigeons tomorrow . They were pouring in the wheat field today. Can't wait.

You have a friend that is a good guide. I consider that very different than driving to a property to hunt with a guy you have never met. Sounds like you have great contact there. I agree that hunting and fishing is a great catalyst for travel and new experiences. I have put together hunts on public properties in other states just using the Internet. Most all have been rewarding; all have been fun and interesting. There is no market for pigeon meat here although it is legal to sell or trade them. Most all game species with exception of a few parts (i.e. antlers, hides) are illegal to buy, sell or barter. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act put a halt to the commercialization of waterfowl and shorebirds in the early 1900's. It initialized seasons and separated game from nongame species as well as prohibiting spring shooting. States have adopted similar regulations on game animals to protect them from commercialization. As a matter of fact, we just concluded a two-year covert investigation on the selling of flathead catfish to pay lakes here in Ohio. I believe approximately 145 citations were issued to 75 individuals who had caught wild flathead catfish and sold them to private organizations who put them in ponds. They collect monies from people interested in fishing these locations. All wild animals are property of the state and held in trust for the people of the state, even if they are on private property. The ability to manage wildlife on public and private lands has allowed many game and nongame species to reach all time highs. The system works well and ensures equal opportunity and a bright future for hunters. Out of curiosity, what would a 1000 new or once fired Winchester AA .410 hulls cost you (if they are available)?

Let me warn you Cranfield, if you don't want to become infatuated with the sport of turkey hunting, don't try it. It's a disease! I couldn't imagine what all the excitement was surrounding the killing of a bird on the ground. I figured if I didn't have to swing through to kill it, it wasn't worth killing with a shotgun. How wrong I was. Just remember who warned you. I kill birds on both public and private. I have hunted as far south as Mississippi. We did a float hunt down there. No guides. Half the hunt is calling the bird in yourself. It's an easy sport to get into. There is plenty of literature out there to prepare you for a hunt. Every bird will have it's own personality and will react to certain calls differently. Some will be easy to kill but others you may never even get a chance to see. Calling is only 20% of the game. I am not an expert. Never will be. Learn something different every hunt. But I have put my share of birds in the oven; hence, why I now do it with a bow. Eighty percent of the game is set-up and energy! Put yourself where that bird likes to be, is going to be, or feels safe being and there is a good chance of killing him. Energy is required to put ones *** in that position. Sounds stupid but hear me out. I kill birds because I can get up and down hills, out and around obstacles, through creeks and over high walls. I usually hunt the hills and on large tracks of ground. The average turkey hunter is lazy and rarely travels more than a quarter mile from his truck. Of coarse, not all terrain that turkeys inhabit is like what I am explaining. Where I live it's flat with small wood lots. Here it takes more finesse to get into a good position and less energy. But then again, I consider brainpower energy too. Have a go at it, but remember what I told you. You will become possessed :evil: Found a good number of birds in a wheat field today. These are the same birds we killed in the beans. We are going to try a hunt in a couple days. Hopefully their "experience" a couple weeks ago has been diminished enough not to remind them of what our battery operated decoy looks like! I'll let you know how we do. Birds offering you any opportunities?