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holloway

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Posts posted by holloway

  6. ShootHub Podcast - lead shot latest with BASC's Terry Behan

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Terry2016 said:

    Lead is a serious threat to public health, long term exposure is known to be associated with conditions such as hypertension, renal disease, digestive diseases, and cognitive decline. Lead is capable of crossing the placental barrier,  harming the foetus, and is known to cause developmental delay and learning difficulties in children.

    Lead (in the form of tetraethyl lead) was previously used as a petrol additive. Thankfully, leaded petrol has been banned in the UK since 1999 after the health and environmental impacts became clear. Historically, lead has been added to paint as a pigment and to accelerate drying. The UK has also banned the use of lead in domestic paint since 1992. 

    As lead is corrosion resistant, malleable, and ductile, it has been used in the manufacture of pipework ever since ancient times. As the toxic nature of lead has become better understood its use in plumbing has been banned in many countries. In the UK the use of lead pipes has been banned since the 1970s

    Despite the use of lead pipes in new houses being prohibited, millions of houses in the UK are still plumbed with dangerous lead pipes that pose a measurable risk to human health. Water companies commonly add orthophosphate to our drinking water as a plumbosolvency agent. The orthophosphate binds to lead pipes and helps prevent the harmful metal from dissolving into the water.

    Adding tonnes of phosphate to our drinking water each year may be cheaper than replacing all of the country's lead pipes, but it’s not infallible and errors in dosing have previously been reported. 

     

    One common misconception is that drinking water is safe if the amount of lead is less than the amount stipulated in the drinking water standards, the World Health Organization has stated that there is no safe limit for lead. In the UK the drinking water standard for lead has reduced significantly as we learn more about its harmful effects.

    The UK water supply regulations introduced in 1989 set the limit for lead to 50 ppb (µg/l), this was reduced to 25 ppb in 2003 and further reduced to our current limit of 10 ppb in 2013. In 2020, the European Parliament adopted the revised drinking water directive that commits the EU members to a limit of 5 ppb by 2036.

    https://thewaterprofessor.com/blogs/articles/lead-pipes

    hope that helps 

     

    Thank you for posting that ,all common knowledge to the educated but ………..

  9. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Konor said:

    Holloway I respect your opinion. However as there has been no firm decision on how this issue will play out I think that is only right that I put forward my point of view in the hope that it will encourage a move away from the all or nothing stance prevailing and perhaps encourage a more imaginative approach to the problem. 

     

    1 hour ago, Konor said:

    Holloway I respect your opinion. However as there has been no firm decision on how this issue will play out I think that is only right that I put forward my point of view in the hope that it will encourage a move away from the all or nothing stance prevailing and perhaps encourage a more imaginative approach to the problem. 

    Fair enough 👍

  10. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    58 minutes ago, Konor said:

    So in the absence of evidence to support the conclusion that lead shot is causing no significant harm to inland bird populations then the logical course of action is to ban its use. Surely that is putting the cart before the horse and there should be concrete evidence to show a significant detrimental affect on game birds or otherwise it plays into the hands of our opponents ,well at least mine ,who wish to see the banning of all live quarry shooting

    Your argument doesn’t address the failure of our fieldsports organisations to propose a compromise resolution that would see hotspot areas having the use of lead shot halted and the results of that studied to indicate the scale of any problem.

    It looks like both you and BASC et al have thrown in the towel it would be interesting to be shown the compelling figures that have given rise to that sorry state of affairs.

    Konor please understand it is not in the hands of Basc or myself and it is not my argument it is just the way these things are looked at in todays world and the way things will eventually pan out ……my view for what its worth in the ideal world would mirror yours almost exactly, to me its a good common sense view which seems reasonable to us .

    I haven't thrown the towel in, but i am a realist i use steel or Bismuth for all my shooting from 410 to vintage guns but in my opinion only really possible by home loading and having no involvement with big bag shooting ,its a pain and i would rather buy shop bought cartridges but for me accepting that i cant get the ammunition to use all of my guns would be throwing the towel in.

    There is a much bigger picture than Bascs involvement .

  11. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Konor said:

    Is this staggering amount of lead shot pollution and overwhelming evidence of lead shot poisoning reflected in a significant drop in the numbers of quarry birds and has American investigation into lead shot use resulted in the total banning of lead shot for upland hunting ? If the evidence is so overwhelming why has this not occurred ?

    I see a great deal of claims regarding the validity of the research proving the toxicity of lead shot and it’s effect on wildlife inland but I’m not seeing the figures that back this up.

    Surely this overwhelming evidence that justifies the banning of the use of lead shot over non wetland areas has figures attached that illustrate the extent of the damage and the scale of the problem. Or is the evidence carried out not as conclusive as some would have us believe.

    Before we can assess whether a total lead ban is justified surely it is essential that we know the scale of the damage to ascertain whether a total lead ban is appropriate. Figures please from those who are promoting restrictions or voluntary moves away from lead shots and then perhaps we can begin to deal with the problem appropriately rather than argue over the politics of the proposed changes.

    Konor in todays world correctly or incorrectly the precautionary principle rules ,as anybody who has had to deal with Natural England shooting consents know .The authorities who ever they happen to be at the time will restrict ban or regulate if you cannot prove that no harm is being done ,this is the way things are being sorted today ,and with the best will in the world scattering what looks to be hundreds of thousands of tons of Lead shot over the countryside is going to be very tricky to say no harm is being done i will go further and say it will be impossible. Authorities do not need any evidence of harm they need evidence of no harm.

    With or without Basc this is what is happening in this country they cant stop it ,at least only by using there own evidence based data might they have any chance of doing so ,i have searched the internet for answers and data  myself and am satisfied that there is a problem with lead shot ingestion there has been 50 years worth of worldwide research,  all of your questions have answers that can be found on the internet if you want to you will find them.

    What will eventually happen is that with no firm evidence to prove that Lead shot is not harming wildlife etc it will be banned, Basc or yourself  have no say in this without evidence to prove otherwise.

    Not saying any of this is right or wrong but it is whats happening .🙁

  12. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    14 hours ago, holloway said:

    so using 1 1/8 loads as a good average chucking nearly  20 lbs of lead shot over the ground every shoot day .multiply that by days shooting year after year 🤔

    So 160 lbs a season if 8 shoots a season ,x 25 years comes to 1280 lbs of toxic lead  shot scattered over the land,(making allowance for my awful maths )  .I would not call this a big shoot by any means but still a staggering amount of pollution by any standards.

    Also just to play devils advocate to all of those asking to be shown the proof of harm to wildlife by lead shot ,just do a google search yourself and you will be able to find all of the evidence you need should you choose to put in a little effort .

    The Americans were looking for lead  shot replacement as a consequence of toxic  shot restrictions over wetlands in the seventies earliest date i can find is 1966 all instigated by their  research into the poisoning of waterfowl.

  13. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    5 hours ago, London Best said:

    I can actually answer that one O.F.

    The team generally averages about 320 shots for the day, depending of course on which members draw the pound seats! 
    In my most long-standing team (25 years plus) none of the guns shoot clays with any regularity. I think only one chap even owns an OU gun. 
    My own cartridge expenditure at clays maybe averages fifty per year.

    so using 1 1/8 loads as a good average chucking nearly  20 lbs of lead shot over the ground every shoot day .multiply that by days shooting year after year 🤔

  14. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    7 hours ago, 8 shot said:

    Just as an aside we have pheasant one a week either in a casserole or roast, probarbly eat more than I shoot. But not sure  I'd pay for it if it wasn't free

    I have always wondered just what percentage of commercial shot game is fit for sale ,what with the average consumer looking for packaged perfection in their purchases.I imagine that if a survey was done it would be alarmingly small.

    My own bag is used whatever state its in ,badly shot badly bruised whatever it all goes in the pot but if someone else shot it i certainly wouldn't spend money on it .

  16. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

    I shoot, beat and drill game crops on 24 shoots around us and NONE have moved to non toxic and don't intend to, we have 2 days on one commercial shoot were the game dealer takes a very small amount of duck and the venison but is not interested in pheasant and partridge even if shot with non toxic 

    so do you know where the Pheasant  and Partridge bag ends up ?

    2 hours ago, Minky said:

    Why would you be interested in my opinion.? I am a single individual so my opinion counts for nothing as did the thousands who took the time, trouble and expense to travel to London to  show and demonstrate our number against the proposals.  It's like time lag of certificate renewals and the issue of section 7s running into years.  The rifle club that I shoot with put in a renewal and a year later the certificate hadn't been renewed. When asked about when the certificate was going to be issued because the club needed to buy ammunition.   The response was...Well you have personal certificates.  You'll have to use them to buy ammunition.  Its stuff like this that shows how insignificant basic is and why basic consistency gets stick on the forums.

    Is your rifle club affiliated to Basc ?

  18. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Konor said:

    Thanks for that Holloway I think you’ll be in the minority that I alluded to but maybe it’s greater than I thought.I retired mine from the shore but as Im get older I may consider taking it back out ,what loads and chokes  are you using ? If legislation comes through to restrict lead inland I was intending using it for steel inland but may end up using it for more of my shooting if the heavier loads work out.

    I think you are  probably right i am in a minority ,i do to be fair load my own but have used shop stuff successfully.

    I use a maximum of 1 1/8 2 shot for geese ,but stick to 1oz of 2s for the hammer gun that might seem ridiculously light but i find it works for me .

    My chokes are half and half in one and what i would describe as a tight half in the other .I use as light a load as works and as small a shot as i can get away with ,it does make a delightfully soft shooting experience .

    I have used some shop brought goose loads of 1 3/8 but found them a bit thumpy .

  19. BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

    in General Shooting Matters

    Posted

    18 minutes ago, Konor said:

    How many wildfowlers still use their 1 1/2 oz 3inch chambered guns on the foreshore for geese ? I don’t ,it now gets used inland on game occasionally or a shot at the clays.

    In a few years someone will be asking how many folk take their 1 1/8oz 2 1/2 inch guns out in the field and there will probably be a similar number doing so as the amount of 3inch 1 1/2 oz guns being used on the shore for geese now.

    I’m sure a lot of people won’t be bothered ,they’ll be quite content with their ubiquitous 3 inch chambered over and unders but it will be a great loss to our sport and the truth of the matter may well be that the changes that occurred to bring about the loss of our vintage guns in the field will have had an insignificant positive effect on the environment. 

    I use a Midland 3 inch sxs for geese have used all sorts of steel loads through it ,also a G E Lewis hammer gun never had any problems but as you know with steel you can use lighter loads to the same effect as the old heavy lead loads ( been doing this for probably 15 years ).

  24. Holts

    in Guns & Equipment

    Posted

    15 minutes ago, farmer7 said:

     

    Thanks for that, obviously didn't put enough on any of my bids then! 

    They have to process thousands of lots so you will have to wait a little while to be sure ,i wouldnt give up yet its a little early.

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