Scully
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Posts posted by Scully
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2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Yes. BASC is opposed to any further regulation on the use of lead ammunition in the UK. Regulations are already in place to mitigate risks to wildfowl from the use of lead shot in wetlands. There is clear evidence that lead shot poses a risk to a wide range of bird species in terrestrial habitats and a voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting with shotguns is reducing these risks. The shooting sector must be allowed time to develop non-lead shotgun ammunition due to a world shortage of components and the need for manufacturers and assemblers to source new machinery to produce lead shot alternatives and biodegradable wads for all shotgun calibers. Lead in game meat is potentially a risk to human health via secondary exposure and government guidance and market forces are managing risks via best practice. Lead exposure pathways are not conclusive for livestock, soil, soil organisms, plants, and surface waters; and current legal and regulatory frameworks are in place to manage risks. At this point I can't say whether the fighting fund will be required to fund opposition to legislative proposals but proposals that damage shooting will be opposed - as we have seen with BASC campaigns and legal challenges on other issues relating to shooting, some of which has drawn on the fighting fund. Whatever happens ahead on the legislative front I think that BASC will continue to encourage a voluntary move away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting.
……and round and round we go.
Any idea what BASC’s etc, ‘voluntary transition’ was in response to Conor? -
16 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
At the end of the day the inescapable fact is that the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting was not, and is not, a 'lead ban'. This has been explained dozens of times on this forum and anyone that continues to tout those views in this thread is guilty of deliberately spreading misinformation.Also, the HSE review of lead in ammunition began a year after the voluntary transition announcement, not before, and was because of the Brexit deal and nothing to do with the voluntary transition. This has been explained dozens of times on this forum and anyone that continues to tout those views in this thread is also guilty of deliberately spreading misinformation.
As for the various other even more lurid conspiracy theories - what a ridiculous load of nonsense.
I accept that some posters in this thread seem to read nothing off this forum on policy developments around lead ammunition except each other's misinformed posts, and evidently either do not click on the links I provide to factual updates, or just ignore the factual updates, and also that a certain group think has set in, and that this online cultural environment on this forum dissuades alternative views to be posted for fear of the resulting vitriol.
Thus, I think that all I can do in the face of the deliberate misinformation and unpleasant vitriol and attempts to derail yet another lead ammunition related thread - is to repost the links for the vast majority of objective viewers to research - accepting that there are a tiny minority of people who are very much personally invested in their misinformation campaign on this forum for various reasons only known to themselves.
Links as follows:
The 2020 joint statement on the future of shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting:https://basc.org.uk/a-joint-statement-on-the-future-of-shotgun-ammunition-for-live-quarry-shooting/
The latest BASC update on the voluntary transition (what was in the OP):https://basc.org.uk/moving-forward-for-the-future-of-shooting/
The latest GWCT update on the voluntary transition
https://www.gwct.org.uk/blogs/news/2024/march/phasing-out-lead-where-are-we/
Can you tell me Conor, what was BASC’s etc ‘voluntary transition’ in response to?
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Acrylics will do it. Paynes Gray and white are all you need.
Farrow & Ball make a colour actually called ‘Pigeon’. It’s available in sample pot size, but you’d be better off with the acrylics I mentioned. More variations in tone and tougher.
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We once asked some EA staff who were working on a mates farm, this very question. They told us to ‘just shoot them’ ! We didn’t.
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16 hours ago, oowee said:
I read something interesting today about migration to the US across the border from Mexico. The article was saying that rather than crack down on the crossings, the government would be more successful concentrating on the employers exploiting the illegal employment of migrants. Without employment then the problem would be mostly solved. There was no willingness to do this as the migrants were a lucrative source of labour.
Quite. I’ve read in more than one article that without cheap Mexican migrant labour, the economy in those parts where it is prevalent, would be hit hard.
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13 minutes ago, Fellside said:
Yes I have those - impressed.
Bought too long ago to remember (10 years…?), still going strong.
Yes, they are impressive boots indeed.
I’m on my second pair. First pair lasted maybe 8 years or so of moderate to heavy use, and were only binned because I couldn’t find anyone to resole them. -
2 hours ago, old'un said:
Wasn't statutory guidance issued by the gov?, see 2.54 down….https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statutory-guidance-for-police-on-firearms-licensing/statutory-guidance-for-chief-officers-of-police-on-firearms-licensing-accessible-version-from-1-november-2021
Where there is evidence of domestic abuse, as far as I’m aware.
This sounds to me that some forces are using that as a means to question partners, wives etc as a matter of course regardless of whether there is evidence or not.
It is widely open to abuse of power by the police. Where does it end? For example: a neighbour ( a field away ) owns a dog which has already attacked two other dogs in the village and has had three attempts at attacking mine. It is a beast of a rescue dog and will rip mine to pieces, which goes into an adrenalin fuelled frenzy each time we meet.
I’ve sworn once at the son following a very close do, merely because I didn’t see his dog coming through the hedge to get to mine until it was a foot away and I nearly jumped out of my skin!
I have to bite my tongue as the owners know I’m a firearms owner, so my OH has tried to resolve the problem, telling me to stay out of it, but no joy.What if the rozzers ask ‘Any disputes with the neighbours?’ 🤷♂️
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49 minutes ago, clangerman said:
what do the fools who told us shooting was safe in the hands of boris gump have to say now the tories are cutting our throats with this as a parting gift!
It’s a police initiative, not a government one.
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Scarpa. Nuff said.
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45 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
The reasons are in that statement and have been available to you to read for over 4 years. I realise that you have got the wrong end of the stick for 4 years given that you mistakenly believed that the HSE review preceded the voluntary transition and that you mistakenly believed the voluntary transition was a ban on lead (including .22lr as you have mistakenly asserted) and that you are finding it challenging to admit you got it all wrong. But that's ok, we all get things wrong at times, and I think you do mean well, and I hope you can find the resolve to take a step back, and rethink and unlearn.
Ok, thanks….I think. However, the question ( along with many others ) still remains unanswered; what was BASC’s etc ‘voluntary transition’ in response to?
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34 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Here is the Feb 2020 announcement:
https://basc.org.uk/a-joint-statement-on-the-future-of-shotgun-ammunition-for-live-quarry-shooting/
Thank you. I have a list somewhere of the chronology of the steel shot issue as far back as when Shifty Swifty was in charge of the LAG ( 2016?) and writing a blog I think for Mark Avery, and before that, if I can find it. I’ve moved house twice since then, once in an almighty rush! 🙂
I ask again, what was BASC’s etc ‘voluntary transition’ in response to? -
17 hours ago, bruno22rf said:
I can only find solace in books by Tom Sharpe, reading them for years and never got bored.
Yes, cracking reads. Have read most of them if not all.
20 minutes ago, Penelope said:I get through a paperback a week or week and a half on average.
If you like a crime/detective novel with a bit of history mixed in, the Matthew Shardlake series by C.J Sansom, set under the Tudor reign of Henry VIII are are good read.
Dissolution.
Dark Fire.
Sovereign.
Read them all. Love Tom Sharpe. Kaffir Killer Konstable Els 🤣
Boom boom!!
Same here. Will give them a gander.
The 87th Precinct novels of Ed McBain are well worth a read too. -
17 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Ok. Let's try this another way shall we to that we can bottom out the misinformation you keep repeating on this forum. Which came first - the voluntary transition or the HSE review? Simple question and there is only one right answer.
Ok. Let’s try it another way. What was BASC’s ‘voluntary transition’ from the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting, in response to? You must know Conor; we discussed this during our phone call!
This is fun isn’t it! 🙂 -
If they interview my ex I’m stuffed! 😄
She despises me!
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5 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
And yet again you repeat the misinformation. Let's ask the question yet another time. Do you accept that you got it wrong on the timing of the voluntary transition relative to the HSE review? You have stated that the HSE review was preceded by the voluntary transition. A yes or no answer would be fine.
And yet again you choose to ignore and evade any questions I ask ( or from anyone basically ) even when I have stated I have defended BASC’s position to others regarding their response to the HSE proposals in line with EU REACH stated proposals.
If I’m wrong Conor, then what was BASC’s etc proposal of a ‘voluntary transition’ or voluntary phase out, in response to? A whim? -
11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Ok. Let's ask the question again. Do you accept that you got it wrong on the timing of the voluntary transition relative to the HSE review? You have stated that the HSE review was preceded by the voluntary transition. A yes or no answer would be fine.
Notwithstanding the elephant in the room - that you have got it wrong for 4 years on this forum conflating a voluntary transition away from lead shot for a full lead ban, as particularly evidenced by per your bizarre comments on .22lr ammunition.
I really do think you should take a step back, do some reading, and get the facts right, given the amount of time you commit to comments and assertions on this forum on this topic.
I get many things wrong Conor, but not deliberately. I have often stated on here ( do a search if in doubt ) that BASC haven’t called for a ban, to those who have accused them of doing so, and that the ‘voluntary transition ‘ was in response to HSE proposals calling for restrictions which amounted to a ban, in line with EU REACH. I haven’t got things ‘wrong for 4 years’, nor do I deliberately spread misinformation.
The screen shot I posted on here is part of a statement issued online by BASC, and is there for all to see and pops up quite readily as a result from a google search regarding the banning of lead shot in the uk.
It’s a bit rich to then accuse me of spreading misinformation when that statement is BASC’s, and repeatedly asking me to answer questions when you yourself simply ignore those of others but respond with evasive politico type jargon or just post a link which does the same.
If the ‘voluntary transition’ fails ( as it clearly appears that after four years it is and will ) what will the response of HSE be? What is likely to happen?
You repeatedly state that if people choose NOT to comply with the ‘voluntary transition’ then that is their choice, but avoid stating what the likely consequences will be. Why?
Don't you know?
I know many folk who do.
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35 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
I have drawn a line under the conversation. I am correcting misinformation you are posting on a thread that I started. Feel free to start your own thread. Do you accept that you got it wrong on the timing of the voluntary transition relative to the HSE review? A yes or no answer would be fine.
Is it simply a matter of timing? 😄
What difference does timing make to a proposed ban for live quarry shooting which will become a reality at some point very soon despite what you want to refer to as a ‘voluntary transition’?
Has the HSE proposed a ban on the use and sale of lead shot for live quarry shooting in the UK?If the transition fails ( which is what is obviously happening ) what is the outcome likely to be? A ban, which is when BASC etc say ‘well we tried to tell you but you brought it on yourselves’! Brought what on ourselves? Something which was going to happen anyway? If it succeeds ( which it won’t, leading to a ban ) BASC etc can then claim we made a ‘voluntary transition’! BASC etc then claims the moral high ground but it amounts to the same thing! A ban. Isn’t this simply semantics?
The quickest way to get us to stop using lead projectiles for live quarry Conor, is for cartridge manufacturers to stop producing them, but they aren’t. Even when and if they do, unless it is made illegal to buy or use lead projectiles for live quarry shooting or indeed for all shooting ( which is a ban ) then shooters will simply buy trap loads; they’re great for decoying. 🤷♂️
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20 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:
Again you are conflating the voluntary transition with a ban. Moreover, the HSE was tasked to look at lead in ammunition amongst many other chemicals in relation to the Brexit deal to allow continued trade with EU on chemicals and that all started long after the voluntary transition was announced. I really do think you should take a step back, do some reading, and get the facts right, given the amount of time you commit to comments and assertions on this forum on this topic.
I thought you’d drawn a line under our conversations?
This is an extract of a statement by BASC, found online. For whatever reason I couldn’t create a link, so screen shot it and cropped it to fit, so if it’s out of context then fair enough.
I thought it worth posting after your refusal to answer any of my questions regarding .22rf ammo, and made the comment about there being no proposed ban regarding….well, anything really. 🤷♂️ You’ll note it mentions not only lead shot but also rifle and airgun ammunition.
It is still noted that you have answered only one ( I think ) of the questions I have asked, answered one but only with a question of your own ( which I replied to ) and totally ignored others with a statement.
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Classic. Very nice.
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My fascination for knives pales into insignificance compared to my fascination for guns! 🤷♂️
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I know there are some avid readers on here, and not just those concerning the natural world or shooting related.
I will and do read books concerning most topics, but for those who like a good detective/thriller type novel, I can most firmly recommend the fiction and non-fiction books of Joseph Wambaugh.
He is a former LAPD Detective Sergeant and many of his books were made into feature films starring some pretty major actors back in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. Actors such as William Holden, James Garner, James Woods, John Savage and the iconic Harry Dean Stanton! Movies include The Choirboys, The Onion Field, The Glitterdome, Black Marble and Blue Knight plus many others.
I read all his books, most of which were stupidly binned ( along with many others believing I’d never read them again….have read most of them at least twice ) in a pique of annoyance when emptying the house following the split of a long term relationship with the mother of my kids.
Anyhow, almost a decade later, and assuming he’d be gone by now ( in my defence he was a rookie during the Watts Riots in the 1960’s ) I went to my local bookshop to order a couple I fancied reading again, and lo and behold, not only is he still alive but still writing!
Ordered everything I could which I haven’t read and it’s like being reunited with an old friend!🙂Most are set in and around the West coast of America for obvious reasons, but if you’re into this genre you won’t find any better in my opinion. They are full of real life grit, hard bitten cynical cops who whilst having to deal with all the down in the gutter death and destruction of their daily jobs, are also effected by their own domestic circumstances of divorce, embittered relationships, alcoholism, self doubt and egos, plus generous helpings of laugh out loud black humour and sarcasm. They are an absolute delight, superbly well written with characters entirely believable and humanly flawed by someone who really really knows his subject. I can’t recommend them enough. Some are obviously dated ( by their setting ) but still hugely readable.
His best non-fiction work in my opinion is one titled The Blooding, which was made into a UK tv movie or series, which was about two murders in Leicestershire which had the UK police beaten, until they got wind of an at that time embryonic UK scientific discovery known as DNA fingerprinting and how it was used ( for the first time in history ) to catch the culprit. It is a fascinating read, and worth noting the murderer was recently ( within the last couple of years I think )and fortunately recalled back to prison soon after having been stupidly released back into society under license.
Anyhow, sorry for the novel 😄 but I just thought some may be interested.
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4 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:
Insp Davies said: "We’ve had seven cases during this trial where we've either refused or revoked a licence; that is seven cases that potentially could have gone on to domestic abuse homicide
They potentially could still go on to be domestic abuse homicide but by a knife rather than a firearm.
Quite. The annoying aspect of all this for me, is that the rozzers know it will impress or placate an unknowledgeable general public and or politicians looking for an easy fix, deflect criticism from their shortcomings and cover their backsides, whilst doing absolutely nothing to address any real issues. It’s literally meaningless.
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56 minutes ago, jan8p said:
Loaded questions indeed.
'Does your partner have a fascination with non licensed weapons such as cross bows or knives?'
Thats me scuppered then! 😂
Note to self….Remember to tell OH not to mention the drawer full ( literally ) of at least 30 folders and sheath knives in the gun room, plus the gralloching set hanging up behind one of my jackets, plus what is left of my bayonet collection upstairs and a 10” Damascus Bowie type knife.
There are also two obsolete calibre handguns.
Bill Harriman must be pooping himself! 🙂Wait ‘til mate finds out; he has sabres and a couple of Nazi dress daggers!
He has a fiancé but they don’t live together so this probably won’t affect him. 🤷♂️
BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry
in General Shooting Matters
Posted
No, no, no Conor. That’s simply the party line.
I’m away currently, hence my scant posts, and can only dip into the forum on rare occasions , but I’ll be back on the 21st and will endeavour to give the forum my full attention. 🙂