Dangerous Brian

If you want a cheap option use an open bag of rice. I keep one in with my steel cartridges just in case there is a trace of moisture left from a damp day in the field.

I remember using Trutracers back in the late 80's/ early 90s. I think they had a separate section in them for the tracer part rather than dayglo pellets or similar. The main problem we ran into was whenever we were on a tricky stand and decided to see where we were going wrong, we would end up hitting the bloody clay so didn't learn a thing!! Not a very cost effective way of getting the scores up.

I have been following people's view on 4's in other cartridges but just hadn't come across VIPs in size 4. Any idea if it's a true steel size 4? The VIP steel 3 isn't exactly aligned with other manufacturers as it is still classed as standard steel (3.25mm) where others use Fe4 or similar to describe a "a bit bigger than 4 but not as big as 3 shot size". From another thread on here, I think they are using a seaweed extract for the wad.

Hi All I was wandering around TFM at the weekend and noticed they had VIP Pro Eco steel in size 4. I have used the 3's and 5's and didn't know Eley had started doing 4's (not even on their website). Has anyone on here used them and how do they compare? I like the 3's and 5's but was wondering if the 4's would be a better balance to avoid chopping and changing shot size. I would also be interested in shot diameter and count.

Make sure you have the writing on the cartridge brass the right way up too.

Webley and Scott 2012K. They also did a 2512 and 3012 (side plated boxlock and sideplate versions). Not sure if they still make them but they should be about second hand. One thing to watch is the metal to wood fit which can be a bit off on some of them.

I have been using Pro-Eco steels left over from last year and they seem fine. 5's on the pheasants work well for me (didn't see a difference compared to lead 6's) and 3's for duck (also work well if I shoot the right bit of sky). Having said that, I heard the pellets hit a duck at the weekend which made it drop. It then flew off when the dog went up to it. I assumed I had just hit wing feathers hard enough to unbalance it. The other duck I shot that day was dead in the air. One thing to watch with the 3's is the pattern can get quite thin depending on the gun/ choke combo. If that all checks out, I would have a word with Eley- they should go better than what you've seen.

Just a thought- If Game shooting were to be banned, would all other disciplines get on just fine with the very probable price hikes for cartridges? From a quick glance at the shelves there seems to be a premium attached to anything with a pheasant or partridge on the box. If no-one was buying those products who would cover the shortfall in profits? I know all the advertising is around the best of the best components etc but does that really cover the difference to the average Pigeon cartridge or a half decent clay load? From my limited view there would be a loss of margin and also a loss of volume that would be shouldered by the other product lines. Even from just a commercial angle we are all linked.

32g of 6s. 28g of 7 1/2 is too small.......

I remember a few months back that testing was going to start on Damascus barrels. Can't remember if it was the proof house or other doing it though. There were reports that a gun had been damaged on a try steel day but a few months later it emerged that the guns had been in use long before the try steel days and as such it was unclear whether steel shot was the cause. I haven't heard anything on that subject since. Anyone else have an update?

We have been using a combination of Eley VIP Pro Eco Steel 5s for pheasant and 3s for duck which worked for us. Both are standard steel specification (Eley size 3 being just under the CIP limit for HP steel). One unlucky duck came over the line and was dropped dead with 5s but that was hit in the head and neck so not much to go on, though I think 3s or 4s are a better option for them (just a gut feeling). One thing to watch is how these cartridges pattern in different guns despite having the same nominal chokes. Get some wallpaper and have a try so if there is a problem in the field you will have an idea whether it's lack of pattern/ oomph/ talent.

My Daughter and I have been using steel on the little syndicate driven shoot this season. I started out on it and found it fine for my needs. Went back to lead to use up our stocks. My daughter started the season on lead whilst I did the experimenting, then swapped over to steel. She found she got on better with it; not sure why but it just seemed to work for her.

Like Sprucey I have a 325 sporter that was my Dad's. It has 70mm chambers and the chokes are marked for lead and steel with express warnings about going over half choke due to the pattern blowing. Not sure ring bulging was a thing back then when they wrote the manual for it. I would be happy using standard steel through it.

If they struggle to identify shot from seeds, how can they confidently tell bismuth from lead by poking it with a scapel as in the clip?

Might be the new (to me at least) Bioammo offering. I think it is an alloy of Bismuth, Tin and another metal. I think it was in one of the shooting magazines a month or two ago.

Excessive as you say but still valid. Goes to prove you can’t take these cartridges for granted. If you get them wet during a day out make sure you dry them properly when you get home. The Eley size 3 being HP or not is caused by Eley marketing. As sizes seem to be more like guidelines than rules, Eley have used a bit of artistic license. Even though they state size 3, the actual size in mm is within CIP standard steel limits.

Hi Fellside. The cartridges I tested are the ones that were out in the wet all day (in my pocket so not directly immersed). The last day we had last season was pretty soggy. IMHO although the ends are heat sealed, it shouldn’t be taken for granted that water won’t get in. An attempt to keep the worst if the weather off during the day is probably the best route. Going for fully sealed, silica gel etc is probably way over the top

Looks like the wads will start to break down as soon as they get wet. The cartridges tested were from boxes taken out in the rain last season and not used. I did my best to keep water off them (kept in my pockets until needed) which is sensible for all cartridge types. Each crimp is heat sealed to keep water ingress as low as possible but I wouldn’t rely on it.

The wad after 30 mins in cold water. They are just a water soluble wad so firing shouldn’t have any effect. Not heard about the powder going off over the course of a year but will find out soon enough…..

Vaguely remembering a post from last year regarding eco wads degrading on storage, I had a little check on my stocks before venturing out next week. All looks pretty good to me. Both sizes were bought last season to see how I got on with them. Then COVID struck.

As I said earlier, don't get too hung up on shot sizes as a number. If Eley steel no. 3 is less than 3.25mm in diameter then it is standard steel. I have boxes of Pro Eco in both 5's and 3's at home and both have the same warnings. I can't get on to the Eley website to chech shot diameter at the moment but there should be info there.

I think the Eley warning doesn't relate to HP steel proof. They state that the gun should be proofed for steel. A standard Nito proofed gun with 70mm chamber is proofed for standard steel. Don't get too hung up on shot sizes as numbers; stick with sizes in mm as one manufacturers No.4 might be another's No.3 etc. The full choke might be a bit tight- even if damage isn't an issue, the pattern could be blown giving you a lot of misses and cripples.

Mind you, a decent solicitor should be able to argue that if the police managed to remove the end cap with a screwdriver and "easily adjust" your rifle over the limit, they tampered with the evidence making it inadmissable. It's a bit like the police trying to prosecute a shotgun owner with a Sect. 2 certificate purely because it is easy to cut the top off a cartridge and replace the shot with a single lump of lead.

I can't see where GL42 grants additional rights to the occupier. It provides a means to control pest species without falling foul of the Wildlife and Countryside act. Any other permissions/ rights needed to shoot on a particular piece of land don't seem to fall under it's scope.

I'm currently running Baracuda greens in .22 which are about as heavy as I can find (12.96gr). Early days at the moment but they seem OK (only gone up to 28yds so far). I tried Hyperdomes before which were accurate up to 25yds but had a very low bc making me think they wouldn't stay that way for much further.