Tim_D

Tuna has always been my top tastey treat for Ratty. The more rewarding the food, the more tempted they will be. As for the light, I'd go with the red filter and dim light just enough for you to see. Trouble is it won't be long before they wise up to it. Rats are very cautious creatures. I would let them have a few free meals now and again to get them coming back.

Here Here... This is the reason why I have not really been on here for a few months because every single newbie question, including my own sooner or later gets a slaughtering by the experienced and told they shouldn't own a gun if they don't know. I wish some of you guys would chill a little, I don't have any shooting buddies, nor do I have any friends that shoot and I get most of my information from my local RFD or the internet. There's alot to learn and it's sites like this that really can help educate - where you can ask any questions you like... Tim.

I appologise for offending you, it's good to hear you use 50 birds. Poorly chosen maybe, but not intended to cause offense to anyone as I am repeatedly saying. A pigeon shooting site it is and yes there is an airgun section you are right, perhaps that section would have been more appropriate. I did not say I think 50 is too many for anyone to use though. Anyway I'm thick skinned and don't take offence as easily... The good news is I've got a .177 that was my grandfathers - a BSA cadet major - not very powerful but accurate on my range at 25 yards. No scope or anything but have shot two pigeons very successfully through the head at this range. The other news is, you've all convinced me I should open my eyes a bit to the shotgun route - whilst I won't be allowed in the fields with horses in, I could go in the others... so I have found a local clay shoot where I can take a lesson and improve my knowledge in this area and can consider this route later in the year. Thanks for everyone's opinion again anyway! Cheers. Spot on, that's the conclusion I have come to from all of this. Thanks.

Hi Everyone, Thanks for the different views and opinions. It's interesting to see how people vary from "Should be fine to use a sub 12 ft/lb" to "Clearly you're not proficient". I cannot use a shotty due to the noise, whilst there is only one house (the land owner) that will hear it, there are horses in all of the fields, (I have been using subsonic ammunition and a silencer so far and can be sat next to the horses and they don't get startled). That is the one condition of shooting this ground that I don't spook the horses! (God bless em, never seen the beauty in them myself) If I could use a 4/10 I would (for the pigeons not the horses) Anyway, I've decided to look into a sub 12 ft/lbs .177 or maybe .22 and as far as shots into the air go, I'm going to be carefull. The permission is actually a valley and you can line up most shots with a field some distance behind you, however, I don't feel comfortable doing this with the rimmy, even though I can see the field in the distance, it's the dents in my steel backstop at 70 yards when zeroing on a target that spook me! I think it's a bit less risky with the air rifle. Right, before I stop rambling, I think I've upset a few of you with the the words "Mass Murder" - no offence intended! I love shooting too, I'm not saying a shotty is mass murder !! - What I mean, as I tried to say in an earlier post is my passsion is stalking a couple of rabbits / pigeons and taking them home for the pot. The cleaner the kill, the more content I feel.. (whilst keeping the land owner happy with a few less burrows that the horses can put their lovely feet into and a few less pigeons)... not taking 50 or so birds. Anyway, I appreciate all of your comments, harsh or otherwise. .. . Cheers. If any of you are local and want to come over one weekend for a shot or 3, drop me a line.. Tim

"mass murder " new to the sport or just ignorant Ignorant I find a little harsh, I mean when I go out to shoot, it is to stalk a pigeon or two for the pot, (my permission is really quite small) not an afternoon of shooting 50 or so pigeons with a shotty and decoys. Thanks for your advice.

Hi there, I'd appreciate tapping some of your collective knowledge... I currently shoot with a CZ452 and have no problems with rabbits and the odd unlucky pigeon that lands in the field. BUT... having a solid (ground) backstop to shoot into means I get to see many pigoens in trees that I can't touch. I have a .25 FAC Air Rifle on my certificate and the plan was that later on (ie now) I would get this Air Rifle to stalk a few pigeons in trees. I was under the impression that shooting well away from population, I would be safe to pop this thing off into the air at pigeons... but I think I am wrong. When talking with my local RFD he said no, I should still have a good backstop... Back to square one then... so I'm thinking maybe a .22 non FAC... but have no idea what sort of range I can shoot (pigeons) over, or if it is safe to shoot into the air with these either... I'm not interested in a shotty as my fun is stalking and getting a clean kill rather than mass murder if you know what I mean! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, I hope I can decide on the right tool for the job Tim / Bedfordshire

Agreed - there's loads of rabbits around me too. I'm taking 2 to 3 each trip out with the Rimmy, could take many more but they are very local and easy to go and hunt so why spoil my fun so soon! Besides there's only so much you can eat at a time!! Pigeons though I'm having problems with - there are loads in the trees but they fly off as I approach and I can't get a safe backstop. I haven't tried decoying yet but I'm considering getting an airgun for these tree shots so I can sneak up on them. I've been making a 2 rabbit pot (with Prunes recepe) and freezing what we don't eat. I've put a couple of others in the freezer too. This week I'm going to buy a mincer and make hopping burgers.. Looking forward to my Friday night out tonight!! Can't wait.

The biggest problem I think any airgunner faces in field shooting is the curvy trajectory. This is enough of a problem with .22. The gun may put pellet upon pellet at the target range, but when a surprise rabbit presents itself along a hedge, in a wood, or in the corner of a field, the key issue isn't hitting hard, it's calculating the hold over/under, so you are certain you'll hit in the skull, and not its ear, or worse still its lower jaw. Hitting hard enough isn't the problem, it is hitting it hard in the exact right place that is, and the curvier the trajectory, the harder the problem. I'm going for a .22 FAC airgun at about 25ft pounds with 14 grain pellets and a .22 rimfire to get away from gunnery calculations that wouldn't be out of place for the average mortar. I toyed with the idea of .17vmax and .17HMR, but decided that with the number of rabbits I need to cull, the ballistic crack might reduce my opportunities for follow up shots. My advice to Tim_d would be to go for a .22 or even a .177. A rabbit with a hole in its brain never gets up again. That's a fact. I shot nine in a row that just fell over and twitched yesterday. That's because I knew the ground and the exact distance from my prone firing position to the warren they were playing outside. Absolutely well said. I've shot with airguns all my life and know what range I can hit accurately so leave many rabbits / pigeons well alone. Now I have an FAC, I'm going for .22 Rimmy subsonic moderated simply because of the horses in the fields I shoot which go nuts with a bang, otherwise I would have gone for the .17HMR but my second choice (.25 FAC airgun) is because I'm still an airgunner at heart too ;-) The way I tend to operate is I know where I want to shoot (I can see pockets of the little ******* in the fields from here now grrr), I go and sit next to some undergrowth very still and wait for them to come out again (typically 30- 60 yards range) - usually only takes 10 - 15 minutes, then I shoot a couple of them. I'm not into shooting 50 rabbits in a night - just one or two AND I eat what I shoot (part shares with the dog) so it's sustainable for me to go back to the fields every week without killing the lot! Anyway - the point of all this? I usually know the range I shoot at and take great pride in not pulling the trigger fairly often when I'm unsure of the distance or think it's too far to kill but yes it's damn tempting. Anyone read 'The Road Less Travelled' ?? bit of a tangent here but he goes on about delaying gratification and this is a perfect example. I want to pull that damn trigger but waiting for the perfect shot gives me such a buzz when I do and it's successful. Nuff said anyway I'm rambling a bit here... Cheers for the great advice anyway, well appreciated. Tim

OK thanks for the advice. I will look into this in a bit more detail before deciding. As I said earlier, my mate was knocking holes in Rabbits and with the larger pellet it was causing quite a lot of damage. I hear your points about curved trajectory, I will investigate the sort of drop we're talking about and compare it to what I'm used to now (I use a Mil Dot to overcome with my current .22 air rifle for target shooting) So far, I have found only Theoben as producing air rifles in .25 - in particular, the Eliminator that was mentioned by coupe382 here seems worth looking at. I wanted to get a spring rifle anyway as I don't have pump or cyliner for compressed air. Cheers guys. Tim

Cheers guys - thanks for that. Yes - RFD is a bit of a tricky one... He's very old school and has a go whenever the internet is mentioned and mutters things like either listen to me or ****** off. Very bizarre as I'm spending good money with him. The answer of course is to walk but this guy is LESS than 1/4 mile from my house so is very handy for me and for future ammo purchases it's perfect. His response after accusing me of wasting his time and phone calls with 'stupid questions about things I read on the net' (that's full of wrong information) was that the European models are 11mm, only the US versions are 3/8 Cheers anyway Tim

Hi guys, Do any of you out there have any .25 FAC Air Rifle recommendations - I have this down as a second gun on my FAC so I can shoot pigeons. I will look out for one secondhand over the next 6 months. I don't think there's much choice as it seems to be an unpopular calibre but I've seen someone with one at about 30ft / lbs and it knocks holes in rabbits at 75 yards... Thanks for your help, Tim

Hi guys, thanks for looking at this. I have a fairly straight forward question - I have just ordered a CZ452 American with short barrel and Moderator. I already have a 3-9 x 50 scope to put onto it. (Made by Hawke). I read on a web page that the American has slightly different scope mounts to the other Cz's - it is 3/8 Inch (which I make about 11.5mm) compared to 11mm. I'm also wondering if the angle of the dovetail is different. Can anyone tell me (who perhaps has one) if this needs anything different / special for mounts? My dealer says the standard mounts in the shop should fit as they go from 11 to 13mm or so but is this right? Thanks, any advice or help gratefully received. Tim

Good stuff jonrms... ordered my cz today... boy am I excited. Every morning I shout at the bunnies across the field "You just wait".... (No I've not cracked up ) Hope yours turns up soon mate. T

Nice one Ron. Got my FAC through yesterday and ordered a Cz452 .22 earlier today so will soon start some more serious bashing myself. How do you find the .17, it's pretty lethal for bunnies isn't it. I was tempted by .17 HMR but it makes too much noise for my permission (which has horses that spook easily in the fields) which requires as little noise as possible so I've got to go .22 subsonic with Moderator. Tim

Hmmm... I'm now sorted, had a visit to check the safe and was handed my certificate. He was a really sound guy - he said he could put me down for 5 guns if he could check the downstairs out for window and (5 lever) door locks. He hesitated when he saw the conservatory windows which aren't locking but I told him about my burglar alarm and auto-dialer and he said fine and put down 5 guns... So... I'm pleased to say I'm going shopping tommorrow for a nice shiney CZ!