Salopian

Received a newsletter yesterday from GWCT which included a review of where we are with the phasing out of Lead shot . The letter for me spelt out the end of Game shooting as we know it , sadly (for me ) the 'scientific' findings were extremely biased against the use of Lead shot , numerous references to articles and papers published by Debra Paine of the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust whose opinions in the past have been found to be biased and also flawed. Unfortunately we shooters do not seem to have a national association that will speak up for us or challenge this flawed science.

I have to agree with both Gunman and LondonBest to a certain degree . I too have made replacement pins from silver steel , left untreated after turning and as yet have never had a failure . I have on occassions turned down a capscrew (allenbolt!) and they have been successful . But going back to my apprentice days , learning to manufacture chisels and punches I was taught to use exactly the method that LondonBest describes in his above post . Think of it like this , 'Your hammer in the gun is striking a punch (firing pin) onto a soft brass plated or copper anvil in the primer , so the only real damage the pin should suffer is from mushrooming of the face struck by the hammer ' if you service your gun annually (like you ought to) any damage will be observed and can easily be rectified.

Today I have received and read an update by Conor O'Gorman and I am very pleased to have read his comments. Now all it needs is for us shooters and members of BASC to make sensible representations to Conor & BASC for them to make our views known to the powers that be . Interestingly I note that Military and NONE Civilian lead ammunition, also indoor shooting facilities are exempt from restriction and scrutiny? Could in reality this be an attempt by the authorities to restrict the use of firearms in the public sector? I think now is the time to make sensible representation to DEFRA and all the other authorities with an interest in banning the use of Lead that actually they are wasting a lot of time and money barking up the wrong tree .

I DON'T THINK IT IS ON AT WESTON PARK ????????

Ditchman , Do you have a photograph of your manual flapper please? My late friend Tony Orchard of Apple Sporting Products used to make them but I have lost (misplaced) mine. I have posted on here years ago asking for a photograph or a drawing of the wire support frame and actuating mechanism , to date with no luck .

Had you seen this? BGA UPDATE: NGDA Announcement on Lead Dear Derek, This morning the National Game Dealers’ Association has announced that its members will no longer be accepting lead-shot game from July 2022. The British Game Alliance is ready to support its shoots and its registered processors through this important transition. The British Game Alliance supported the shooting sector’s commitment to a five year phase-out of lead, announced in early 2020, precisely because the stockists and retailers of BGA Assured Game were telling us that they would not tolerate lead-shot birds for long. We therefore welcome the leadership the National Game Dealers’ Association (NGDA) has shown today, providing a clear timeframe for this transition for all shoots supplying game into the commercial food chain. We are consulting with supermarkets, the NGDA, our Advisory Committee drawn from across the shooting sector, BGA Shoots and our registered game dealers, to put in place systems and protocols to support our community through this change. We anticipate different BGA Shoots will have different needs and different responses to the announcement, and we will not be pushing any one solution. We remain committed to the five year phase-out, while supporting both the NGDA and the stockists of BGA Assured Game who need a lead-free product. There will be concern among many of our stakeholders today, and we are here to listen and respond to those concerns. But the reality, as we have discerned from multiple conversations with major retailers, is that the NGDA’s customers simply do not want lead in their products, and the market for lead-shot game is set to dwindle. I would also like to highlight the opportunities. We have heard from many stockists that the ceiling for game meat is so high, if only we can source a BGA Assured, lead-free product. The NGDA announcement allows us to press home the health and environmental qualities of game, as a sustainable, lean, locally-sourced and quintessentially British meat. This is a message that major retailers are ready to hear and amplify. We have no doubt that the future of game meat is a BGA Assured, lead-free supply chain, and that is what we intend to deliver for the part of our sector that supplies the commercial market. But we remain an organisation delivering Shoot Assurance to every part of the shooting community, to shoots large and small, creating a self-regulatory shield that will safeguard all our futures. Our commitment to self-assurance accessible to all will not change as we seek to support those enterprises moving to a lead-free model. Our mission has always been twofold, to protect our members through self-regulation, and to boost the consumption of game. A consumer of game is the surest friend of game shooting, and supporting the transition to lead-free is the surest way to increase our number of friends. All the best, Liam Liam Stokes CEO Clearly this is extremely important news to those of you involved in game shooting and to the shooting industry in general. Keep well and safe. John John Cullinan Membership Secretary

50,000 to 100,000 wildfowl deaths per annum due to Lead ingestion.Where?It is all very well publishing figures but where is the evidence? This has been mentioned for years but never shown . Surely since the non toxic ammunition imposition for wildfowling the numbers must have gone up, but I'm not seeing larger numbers of Ducks , Geese or Swans.

Surely you mean 'The beginning of the end'?

Quote:-'A report published last week found that 179 out of 180 tested had been shot using Lead shot.' So exactly what is the point that you are trying to make? The birds may have been shot with Lead shot because the Gun realised the limitations of alternative shot at the range he was shooting at ! Talking of surveys it would be interesting to see the percentages of lead users versus steel conducted in a survey of Pigeon, Pheasnt / Gamebirds & Clayshooters .

Thank you Conor for the link , interestingly I have just logged on and have been informed that I have already completed the survey????????? Without touching my keyboard . Yet another flawed survey! Can we get back to sanity as soon as possible . There is at the moment no readily available , economically priced, efficient , alternative to Lead .Until such time as the Law in the UK bans Lead can we concentrate our efforts on doing away with plastic ? I already and have for many years shot fibre wad cartridges and do not feel at all disadvantaged by using them compared with a plastic wadded cartridge .

"I would ideally prefer it if some ‘earthlings’ were able to blend some heavier available elements - to produce decent shot. Call me optimistic if you like. " Or just wonder off and play with their Lego and leave us sportsmen to enjoy our sport like our ancestors have done for a few hundred years before us . Sidenote :- I never had these issues when I was a member of WAGBI ! Instead of banning the use of Lead , how about banning membership of BASC and other 'Green ' misguided institutions . Is Greta Thornberg a BASC Director ?😂

I do have to wonder about what the Chinese are upto? How come that they can dominate so many industries with shoddy substandard products ? Oh! I see . Greedy profit led European managed businesses who happily bring their own Country into recession and labour redundancies to line their own wallets. Steel industry is a prime example we sold out to China & India but they still rely on our skill and technology to make the product. Historically it is recorded that many Wars were won by laying siege to the enemy. Is it not about time we made China suffer from the same fate to bring back some sensibility to World trade? If I don't buy their products and there is no demand the price should come down? Back on the non toxic trail why is Bismuth so expensive in shotshell manufacture whilst the same material is readily available and used in the manufacture of ladies face powder?????

Interesting comments by many . Let us never forget that BASC stated at the very beginning that we should not change until an ECONOMIC suitable alternative to lead was readily available . Steel is no longer an economic alternative . I really do think we are a very long way from finding an alternative to Lead , and that the pollution /toxic argument is exaggerated and shouted about far to much . Not one manufacturer in the UK produces a cartridge using British made components , not even Eley which uses Spanish imports . As for Tonnes of lead deposited on Gameshoots , have you ever seen detrimental issues ? Lead , being a heavy item soon sinks into the Earth and calcifies , becoming a none hazardous element , remember Lead is mined and then refined to become a usable material . Perhaps we could step back in time and enjoy our sport without interference from Eco-Warriors . " Methinks thou protestath too much" . Or should I just bury my head in the lead strewn sand?

I find it interesting that they use HP steel in the USA (where US manufactured guns have very thick steel barrels and are unproved ) BUT they also buy and use European imports such as Blaser, Beretta , Caesar Guerini that are NOT HP proved . It is noticable that HP proved guns are dimensionably the same as their normal proved guns . Would it not be a relatively cheap and simple process to submit your favoured gun to Birminham for HP proving? I have never seen or heard of a genuinely Steel damaged gun ! Apart from one on Youtube that was a frail SxS deliberately subjected to very heavy Wildfowling loads , and that had only slightly bulged the choked barrel .

LondonBest , A very good point well made . There is so much rubbish written on forums about eye dominance , one of the worst that I have seen online is from Pennsport endorsed by Karl Waktare of Gunmark , it comes complete with a video which does a disservice to the Irish . A friends nephew went for an (expensive) lesson at Pennsport and did as he was asked and shot with both eyes open and took in all the rubbish that he was told , came away and had his worst Game season for awhile until he reverted to closing his left eye. Right , back on to the subject , all these eye dominace gadgets have a reason for being available , many are helpful when used correctly . The SP gadget is an unobtrusive gadget and works well if used and more importantly understood properly how it works . Hi Viz beads have been around for years and can work well . For those of you interested in Ben's Eye D rail at £60 plastic & £100 metal rail, have a look at the website Midland Engineering LLC.com to see the original priced at $19 (£14 plus postage ). But once again I implore you to get correctly diagnosed and a cure found for you , it may be as cheap as a piece of opaque Scotchbrite on the lens of your 'offeye'.

To me this is an irritating subject that crops up regularly on nearly all shooting forums . It amazes me how many clayshooters will book a lesson with a 'top shot' costing in the region of £100- £200 per session and these 'experts' NEVER check eye dominance to start . It is such a simple test and is the foundation to good shooting . JDog your comments are also disappointing , do not accept that you will never shoot well again , get yourself correctly diagnosed and a solution sorted and then practice and shoot better than ever before . It is a known fact that eye dominance can alter with age related factors , stress and tiredness, always be aware what your eyes are seeing and how your brain is computing this sensory input. Good shooting and enjoy . Also forget the tosh that you must shoot with both eyes open, you do not have to , there are many very exceptionally good 'one eyed' shooters that do very well every time that they shoot . Shooting is a skill that has to be learned , honed , and continually practiced. One good lesson will cost less than all the clays & cartridges that you miss and will be very good value for money .

The Eye D Rail is in my opinion an expensive rip off ! The idea was stolen off an American made version which is available at a much cheaper price.Much has been written about eye dominance issues and the gadgets and cures available . A very good write up is available on this website written by Hamster . I would recommend that anyone struggling with eye issues speaks with an experienced shooting instructor familiar with this problem .

Yes, How can I help ? Where are you situated ?

That is a good value buy. Just a word of caution , I think the MK1 has a tapered aluminium cone to centre the laser into your shotgun bore . Make sure you rotate the laser and centre it orrectly in the bore otherwise it will be slightly off centre. Later models have a colour coded plastic centreing device to suit 12, 20, 28 bore. Used properly it can be a useful tool , especially indoors during lockdown . Enjoy.

A few things have got me puzzled???????? What information do they want that you are unwilling to give ? Why the numerous questions about " how much does it cost? " yet many will pay stupid money to be instructed by people who cannot instruct ! Final moan is , Do not confuse Safe Shot with the long gone PAS . PAS was a real educational tool that many shooting enthusiasts benefitted from and in my opinion should be re-instated . I ran numerous courses in Shropshire and each weekly segment had instruction from seriously good 'experts' in their field , Ian Openshaw , Mike Jones, on Gundogs , Tony Orchard , John Batley, Pigeon shooting , Bill Harriman, Firearms, lots of good Head keepers, George Hill, Wldfowling etc., etc., SafeShot is a badge of recognition that you have met the necessary criteria to indicate that you have basic knowledge of shotgun safety , nothing more and nothing less.

Thank you all for the very positive feedback. I guess my love of the sport and enthusiasm got me carried away. Just like life our sport is cyclic, when I started I found it expensive and dominated by the wealthy, then as my fortunes increased it seemed more popular , now due to the economy I feel it is once again an expensive sport and competitions are being won by those with a lot of disposable income that enables them to have multiple entries and shoot regularly. So after all your feedback I will content my self on enjoying my own shooting , let us hope that everyone can do the same. Remember if you alter your score card you haven't really won , you are only kidding yourself and embezzling your friends .

Maybe a little off track , but if we had squads of 11 or 15 and all hugged and kissed each other at every clay break we could get sponsorship from BT or Natwest and get out and practice and compete in these lockdown times . One in the shooting stand and others standing at least two metres outside or behind is obviously wrong.

Interesting reading Gentlemen. I recently contacted cartridge manufacturers to see if they could supply 65mm steel cartridges. I received replies that said they are currently not producing steel cartridges due to the high cost of steel shot and shipping costs from China. Which puzzled me somewhat as when I was doing work for manufacturers 35 years ago soft iron shot was being made in Derby by a wire company there (iMI?) Surely if it is expensive to import from China , is there not a business opportunity here in England?

Will this Lead ban apply to Scuba diving lead weights and roofing flashing also electric wiring jointing ? If your going to find Lead hazardous get it out of the environment . Any plans to ban Cocaine & Cannabis?

Bullet225ho, A very warm welcome. Would you have the same information for steel please?