denniswebb

I have just read the rules and it clearly states not to use mock bad language, so could some of you refrain from doing it. I do have a sensitive nature . Dennis

David i don't think you are acting in the best interest of BASC, by responding to posts on these websites.....but like some of here you we all know who you are, the rest on here hide behind silly names......I don't think that sharing in the responsibilities of the administration of the sport is moving backwards, isn't that what self regulation is really about......The shooting bodies running this sport?...That is all i am advocating, it just ain't working letting shooters do it themselves .....I don't believe that the tests in place work, we need to up our game. amongst a small section of this sport we still have a culture in this country of gun ownership for reasons other than sporting needs, these few bad apples will spoil it for everyone.......And Lock Stock and Barrel, i was told on your website not to post in my own name, i have never done that before, but you don't follow the banter between me and Nicloa Herron, we are all good friends, its just you and your silly website that got it wrong. Dennis

The arguments has always been should BASC and the CPSA be more involved in the licencing process....Should a shooter have to take a competance test before application to the police for a gun licence. Should a part of the condition of that licence be that its compulsary to be long to one or the other National Body, a lapse in membership means that you no longer want to own a gun....It all makes common sense, if you cannot afford membership you really cannot afford to shoot.....There are still far too many guns in circulation that are being kept for reasons other than sporting....I am a beliver in if you don't use it you loose it, if that means a drop in licences then that is what it has to be. Dennis

To-night was the first time i had looked at other forums and read the comments from David at Basc......I am quite shocked at the paranoria surrounding any mention of changes to improve and preserve the sport. More shocking is Basc view that no changes are necassary . I only relayed what was told to me by this gun shop owner, i never had a clue that Germany had competance tests before issueing gun licences...I have been listening to the same paranoria on the radio from shooters stateside that they don't see any reason for change necassary . I am quite surprised that David at basc has got sucked into this. It certainly damages there credability and no doubt some shooters will leave basc.....I would like to think the CPSA have a different approach to the changes that will come and lets be honest they are needed . Some of you should reflect on what you have posted on the other forum and really consider what you post in the future, including David. Dennis Webb

I think Gordon if i really want to get the petition up and flying it would be fairly easy in the present circumstances, but it would draw support of the wrong kind. I went to a planning meeting this week, on the agenda was a proposal to build an Irish Travellers camp in basildon. The land was owned by basildon council and the councillors in light of all the agro at Dale Farm, granted planning consent, one member of the public asked if English Travellers could use it and one councillor retorted his remarks as almost racist. its proposed to have 15 pitches at a construction cost of £4,000,000 plus infrastrure cost of around £2,000,000 that works out around £400,000 per plot , they don't pay rates all sign on, all come from Southern Ireland and will cause havoc in the local community...What was really frightening is the english women they wheeled out to speak in support of the application, where do they find them, the angels of mercy.....If i really wanted this petition to succeed it really wouldn't be that hard to find support, these idiots are everywhere. dennis

There are such shallow people on this website.....Robbie when you get to 65 and you can still cut the mustard, you want to shout it from the rooftops, because its all downhill from here on in....did i mention that i won gold in the World Sporting team event this year and Gold in the Home Internationals just in case some of you missed that post, and individual Gold in the Beretta World in 2010....The possitive planning consent that lead to me making a modest amount next year involved the infamous boundary dispute that led to me being arrested, so it was really special. But that is just a sideline to my main buisness. Gordon the website had run its course and sites such as this fill the gap anyway, I don't know any coppers that are good shots, perhaps thats why i go as a ringer sometimes in the Police events. This bitterness you have isn't good for you. Dennis

Nobody says pumps don't have a use, its just they are useless for clayshooting and should not be allowed. I ran one of the biggest websites in the sport for 5 years, i used to write for the main stream magazines, so of course i got to know everyone in this sport. I would never posted contensious issue on websites if the sport was run ok, but my sport wasn't, it had major issues ....I have done my bit to change the sport for the better, i don't think things would have changed if i hadn't . Gordon instead of just condeming every post i make, try to come up with alternitives, be your own man. ......but then being ex plod you are trained not to think for yourself, to be self motivated, a mover and shaker......I just got planning consent on a project that will make £400,000 profit next year for me and my partner, and that was just my sideline......but like all things i have a dilema, do we buy the Vogue or a Range Rover Sport,,,dicisions dicisions....i will put that before the next board meeting.... Dennis

Now we all know what has happened over the other side of the pond is unrelated to what happens over here, but in the Government and public perception they are linked, because we have had the same things happen over here, no matter how we try to distance ourselves from it we all know its another nail in the coffin of this sport. Do we as a sport try to get our act together and manage it better or let it drift along in the hope that others will give us a lot of leaway. In my book if you are a serious shooter, we want you in the sport. If you are someone who wants the kudos of owning a gun because it somehow massages your ego, yes you may get the old pump action gun out after a skinful the night before and walk out on the layout brandishing a sawnoff and a bandeloro , no we dont. we want all those wallies to either be in it or refused a licence, the day they consider it a serious pastime apply for a licence, join one of the organisations and get proper training, then we will let you play. Dennis

Who said there were plans before parliament or that there are any changes to shooting legislation....Do you think Basc or any other national body will admit to anything until there are results or things on the table, i can only relay what i have been told by an authority in the sport. Dennis

Being a copper Gordon you would know a lot about vague side of brains, its a precondition of joining the force. I don't know are they banned by the CPSA ? if they are not they should be...I have been asked not to metion the changes that the national bodies are involved in, its best to ask the questions directly . Dennis

What really disappointing is that no one has made any proposals as to how we can make this sport safer in light of this incident, there are so many anti change merchants its no wonder that it ends up with authorities taking action without consultation. We had the first major incident that lead to a ban of semi automatic guns after Hungerford without consolation, no notice was given to so called enthusiast. Dunblane lead to the banning of hand guns without consultation and by the skin of our teeth the last outrage involved shotguns never lead to direct action but as I found out it had indirect consequences…I have only ever really seen Pump action shotguns on police 5 cut down with sawn off stocks…..I grant you that Automatics may have a use on clay shoots, but I personally ensure whoever is shooting one on my squad knows what safety precautions are expected of them. We are at a cross roads in this sport where we have to manage the sport ourselves, everyone of us has to ensure the safety of everyone that is taking part, not just the shooters but everyone, grounds and Associations can only do so much. We are rapidly approaching major changes that effect every clay /game and rough shooters, much of this already affects clayshooting. By good preparation and hopefully notice those changes will be integrated into the sport without causing problems. Dennis

I have been in this sport as a competitive clayshooter for nearly 40 years, Sporting has always had a certain attraction, in that its always been a non conformist discipline, it doesn't follow the strict codes that some of the other disciplines in this sport do, as such there has always been problems with controling it by the shooting bodies that govern the sport....If they could in someway seperate this element they would , but its the core of the whole sport, so all they can do at best is offer guidlines in it and hope everyone has a good idea of there responsibilities. Is that good enough for the future of this sport, will it stop the antis holding up this event and others as examples of a poorly managed and disorganised activities that need to be brought under a more controllable body such as police managed and licence restrictions.... I have seen many incidents in my years and some by experienced shooters that i would never air on these websites that would merit support to this view.......Whatever your views on this there are moves affoot by our national bodies and the establishment to try to find a better way. For some it may not be what you want to hear , but it will give our sport a far better platform to operate......The cowboy element will always be with us and something we have to try to eradicate, one way is that ever shooter is a member of one of the national organisations. Dennis

There are times when shooting a going away clay is missed with the first shot and its impractical to re-load in time to get a second shot off, so they are not of much practical use in clay shooting and were never really manufactured for this role, no serious clayshooter would ever entertain using one, i don't know anyone that uses one on the circuit. I personally have not seen one used in the past 20 years other than Biddy for his display shoots. From a personal point of view i would never even entertain shooting on a squad with someone using one. To me it would demonstrate that he was not as serious clayshooter and someone to steer clear of ......... If you can demontrate there capacity on the clay circuit as a tool to do the job, i am all ears, stuff this garbage about freedom of choice, there is no choice its unsuitable and has to be banned for safety reasons......i don't even like Auto's , most of the close shaves i havve seen in this sport are down to autos, espically overseas shoot. Dennis

Well lets see Gordon, I had a bad stutter from a very early age, they reckon I got it because the Nuns in the Convent Catholic school I was taught in made me write right handed, and I was dyslexic on the plus side I can use both hands equally and stuttering has always been a real problem and has held me back, but it makes you try harder, a disability ain’t always a bad thing. Although a promising artist ( stuttering can make you go into a shell). Kids in those days were really cruel. Teachers used to think that making you stand up in class reading and bumbling your way through was doing you good. I had decided to go to sea and work in the fishing industry at 15 and went to Herring Fishery Score college at Lowestoft and done me time on a trawler, on a boat, stuttering don’t matter, its about grafting, I was the best, nobody was faster than me repairing nets, it came natural, many old guys never get it. Being left handed also meant I could gut Plaice faster than a right handed hand, the gut is on the wrong side for right handed hands. I worked at Lowestoft , Grimsby and Southend, I also did a few trips from Hull. I had been shooting from before you needed licences . At Southend my skipper was the coxswain , and I went into the RNLI as one of the youngest helmsman in the service, because of my stuttering they thought it better because of radio operating, I also crewed the big boat, a Watson Class. ( my picture is on my face book page ). Fishing is no life to bring up a family so I went back into the Building where my roots were. It was easy being a builder but much harder being a businessman. I still stuttered but success breeds confidence, many times over confidence and it can cause problems especially with other so called professionals like architects and Surveyors….its a pecking order and you have to know your place in the order….I have had failures in life we all have, but it’s the way you handle failure that builds character….Experience has taught me never to fudge issues in this sport, if they need sorting, try to sort it, it doesn’t make you popular in the sport with a section of it, but go with your gut instinct. I think we all know that Pump Action shotguns have no place on a clayshoot, I believe they are banned by the CPSA and for good reason. We have to rid the cowboy element from this sport, we have to ensure through education that everyone in it knows there responsibilities to ensure that this sport is the safe for everyone taking part. Both Basc and the CPSA are engaged to try to make it so, everyone in this sport should be a member of one of these organisation, it makes sense to have a strong national body to defend and promote our cause. Dennis

He had just spent over a million on his house with my company, i was selling this braclet and he was looking for a present for his daughter, in his custom he felt it was a gift, he just lost the plot. I don't know why he did it, he just looked foolish in court. It must have cost him a packet but it was just a small claims court hearing and no representation is allowed, he still owes me 60 G , i could let it go but i'm retiring this year and may need the dough to top up my pension or treat myself to a new gun , i hav'nt bought one yet although i was going to Italy to get measured up for a perrarzi this year, but with all the trouble with trying to keep my licence i have put it back. I know you have a dull boring life Gordon and these fantasy website maybe all that is going on in your life, but some of us are still action men, even at 64. England Team Gold in both the 2012 Home International Sporting. and World Sporting. A full overseas calender next year, never dull. Dennis

I have to agree with you Jamie , we all like to think our Court system is the finest in the World but its only when you get involved in it do you understand what a lottery it has become, in some cases nobody in the court, including the jury understand what really goes on...Judges are so remote from the real world its hard to understand how they got the job, barristers live in another world, frequenty lie as well as the police....yet all this goes on unpunished, they never prosecute a copper or a barrister when they get found out in court......But in the defence of the court system i recently took an eminent Doctor to court who had a 5.5 ct diamond tennis bracelet on loan for 2 years, then to deny ever having it. He was represented in Court because he spoke poor english but the judge refused to allow him to speak on behalf of his client and slated the doctor in court and fine him as well, his wife gave the game away in court under cross examination....... It not really related to guns only in the fact that tread very carefully when dealing with licences and the authorities, end up in court and don't ever take it for granted, get the best barrister you can afford. Dennis

I have been a member of the CPSA for 40 years, i almost only ever shoot registered shoots, but on the odd occasions i do shoot straw bale shoots, there is a cavalier attitude endemic in shoots such as these. It’s the reason that Sporting Shooters are treated poorly by some aspects of other shooting disciplines, sporting shooters do not get the respect of the shooting establishment because they are prone to incidents such as this. If you walked onto a registered shoot with a pump action shotgun, in all probability you would be told to leave. If you walked onto a shoot showing signs of drunkenness and continued to shoot you could be suspended or kicked out of the CPSA……There has to be self regulation in our sport, that the main reason the CPSA exists. BASC don’t want to get involved in that area although I suspect in the future they will have to. I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, but there has to be standards to protect our whole sport, there has to be an induction process into the sport that involves some measure of competence before you are given a gun. Its far better if our existing organisations run such schemes rather than some government quango, that is why there are moves afoot for this to happen. My E Petition and letter to Downing Street was just anticipating what has to happen to preserve the future of our sport . Dennis

Oh! your from Haverhill say no more

I saw all thse accidents at clubs i used to belong to 30 years ago and charity shoots, run by well meaning amatures , all i can say to many of you is you don't get out much....The establishment treat gun owners as criminals, you don't get the benifit of the doubt any more, you are treated as a suspicious person and someone that needs further investigation.

The only pump shotgun i have seen at a clayshoot over the past 20 years is used by John Bidwell at his trick shooting events, i have never seen one used at a registered shoot. We live in a World where health & Safety play an important part of all sports, this incident only demonstrated that compliance is essential, the girl who lost her hearing couldn't have had ear plugs in, the guy had a loaded shotgun pointed at other shooters at the ground, some of the others must have been aware he had a hangover and was not competant, all breeches of the CPSA rules. It only demonstate that there is no room in this sport for grounds not to have certification or qualified staff. Everyone who takes part in this sport has to belong to one of the associations, until then incidents such as this will continue to happen.....As i have said in the past the freedom to roam at will and discharge your gun without regard to the consequences is coming to an end.......Wherever you come up against the establishment you are treated like scum, try going through the ferries now and don't declare your guns and see the grief you get from customs . I only mentioned the incident with the girl reffee because although it was 20 years ago and i did my best to get him thrown out of the CPSA he turned up last week at a clay shoot, the police did turn up at the shoot but suggested that its not in the interest of the sport to air this in public, the girl had a broken nose, but for some reason did not press charges. I have been involved in staw bale shoots many years ago ( i did run 2 shooting grounds, Pitsea marshes and botony hill , billericay) i have seen loads of accidents where un trained shooters have been smacked in the face with a trap arm hit by clays, broken fingers, bad cuts, why should staw bales shoots be exempt from the practices that are common in every other industry. Dennis

Lets look at the facts, if i was a ground owner and a clayshooter turn up with a pump action shotgun and i never knew him i would ask him what he was doing there, but then how the hell did he then load a gun and face other shooters there, forget the drinking bit, what the problem was that he must have had an idea the gun was faulty yet still took the rubbish to a shoot and tried to shoot at something, in this case other members of the squad. Doesn't it tell you he knew next to nothing about guns, doesn't that prove that shooters should have basic training about guns, you just cannot rely on shooters learning from a mate, they have to start at the beginning and take competance test, when i go to a shoot abroad i make dam sure the other members of the squad are safe, isn't that the first rule of clayshooting , watch other shooters to see if they are safe, in this case you could not rely on the ground owner to make sure everyone is safe.......Straw bales shoots are a curse on the sport, anyone that sets one up should have a licence to do so, is it no wonder shooters get shot, whats it going to take to get it through your thick sculls, someone getting killed next time.....I don't like guns that are not safe at clay shoots, if an auto uses has a little flag out the side to show the gun is safe, thats fine but how many do that ? You are all living in cloud cookoo land.....I was told this information today about a national working party to bring in changes to improve the sport, as far as i know all parties, shooting organisations, police and government. Dennis

Doesn't it shock any of you that this person was give a licence before the licencing officer knew if he was both competant in using a gun and had a measure of understanding where to use it. It was only when he told the shop staff that he had bought these guns elsewhere that asked him what he was doing with them and steered him in the direction of a shooting ground and lessons, he may not have even gone there but sitting at home wondering where to go next . In my time i have seen World champions turn up the next day still drunk and shooting a competion, i went out with this guy in Italy and he was drinking gin and tonics in a pint glass during the evening and still won the shoot the next day. I had seen him drink 17 pints of stella and still win the Home Internationals in Scotland, the blame has to be with the authorities who let him do it, there were complaints but the authorities don't act, shooting is still seen as a recreactional sport where almost anything goes. Dennis

I am not sure but i think pump action shotguns are not allowed at registered clayshoots, and Gordon it come easy to me because i come from a background of working in the emergency services, 30 years sitting on County, Regional and Olympic committees and see at first hand the stupity that is endemic in our sport, i have seen a shooter knock out a women ref and nothing done about it, every thing swept under the carpet, i don't sit on any committees now and prefer to just stick my nose in now and again on these websites. There are changes coming up that will shock many of you and what we have to do is ensure we are instrumental in fashioning those changes working with the authorities, if we let the police do it unchallenged thenits the end of this sport as we know it....I have come to the conclusion Gordon that you must be a copper. or an ex one. Dennis

Fortunatley moves are afoot nationally to devise a workable system that will deal with many of my proposals in the E Petition, a working party is in hand to bring in better and safer controls in the licence applications and management of the sport, i'm sure David from BASC can expand, but its to bring us in line with Countries like Germany, where you have to sit an exam and take lessons before granting a gun licence. Only today i spoke to one the top gunshops owners in the country who told me that someone came into his shop and had bought 2 rifles and a shotgun and then asked where he could have lesson.......This is an intollerable situation in this sport, where you can just walk in and buy a gun with no level of competance.......Pump action shotguns have no place in this sport and should be banned, they were bought out for a specific purpose and thats not clayshooting, auto's are bad enough, i forget how many discharges i have seen and jamb ups, and see the shooter turn round assuring everyone that the gun is clear only to see a cartridge pop out. Dennis

What has really happened here is we are another step closer to having tighter controls foisted upon us by the establishment, i don't know all the facts but it appears that this ground had no real control over those that shoot at it. Part of the E petition i proposed was that the shooting bodies have a greater say it the management of this sport, an idiot with a pump action shotgun should only be allowed on the ground under strict controls, its not a clay shooting weapon. How the hell was he allowed a loaded shotgun facing other shooters, was the ground a registered ground under guidance form one of the shooting bodies, was the owner a member of one of the organisation, was it registered ? My E Petition was to try to stop the cowboy element in this sport ruining it for everyone. shooters should support it, our National Bodies should have some measure of control over the whole sport.....Has someone got to die first ? before we tackle it. Dennis