[Scotland SNP gains.]

Last point for me. 

People say Scotland can't be successful as an Independent country. They may be correct but I don't think they are.

Why would England, Wales and Northern Ireland not be glad to see the back of us then? I would be if I was from England and Scotland was such a drain on resources and money. Is it possible that under the right leadership we could make a success of independence and use the natural resources, intuinity and industry that we have to be successful and embarass the rest of you guys 😉

Have a good weekend 😗

[Scotland SNP gains.]

19 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

That is so not true, the oil is running out and becoming much more expensive to extract. Plus its not a fuel grade oil its a lubricating light oil which is much less valuable now that cars run on synthetic oils. Besides, most North Sea oil is not in Scottish or even British waters. Its far out in the North Sea. It is held by International Treaty not territorial rights.

Scotland was not a signatory to the treaty so have no retrospective claim to the oil. Unless you choose to believe Alex Salmond Good luck with that, cough cough 

Scottish coal is scagg (thats a real word) it means it has a lot of sand content and is lower grade. Best coal in the world is under South Wales and they are sitting on a thousand years  worth at least of prime coal. Despite that the popular view , is its not considered economically viable to mine high grade Welsh coal in volume. So where does that leave Scottish coal 

Its already been rather tragically proved that Scottish fish is too expensive to transport fresh to UK markets but we can hope they will develop strategies to market it

I don't wish bad things for Scotland, my mother's family came from Dumfries although as one idiot pointed out they were Campbells so couldn't be considered Scottish

Its just that the SNP and all are telling lies and people are believing the lies and it will cost them dearly

Nicola would rather be Queen Nicola of a country in dire financial straits than see it prosper as part of the union.

Alex Salmond quoted Robert the Bruce, sorry lets run that again  Robert du Bruc

a French speaking Norman, hardly a Scottish patriot?

Nothing I've said 'is not true'. Yes the oil is running out and is thought to be poorer grade but under the Continental shelf order, over 90% of the UKs oil is in Scottish waters using the median line.

Everything else you mention is good input and appreciated within the debate but does not contradict my very first post on the subject.

14 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Curious which smaller countries are thriving? Guessing they will be sunny places 😅

Denmark, Lithuania, Norway, Ireland, Croatia, Slovakia etc all independent countries with similar sized population. Some with natural resources, most without. They will have their problems but doing ok.

[Scotland SNP gains.]

The old firm has deep seated hatred for some. Its more a religious issue that is demonstrated through the Old Firm. But its a small, no tiny, idiotic minority on both sides that actually care about it. Most folk aren't interested or only see it as a light hearted way to wind up colleagues or friends.

Same could be said of any anti English sentiment that I'm sorry that you may have received. Its not the overwhelming view of Scots that the English are an issue. And as I've said, I've yet to meet anyone who has genuine anti English feelings beyond the usual 'banter'.

Yes, there's issues up here that need addressing. As I'm sure there are plenty of issues down South. Plenty of smaller countries with far less resources are doing well independently and thriving. 

I find it strange that the folk who wanted independence from Europe and the greater ability to self govern seem so reluctant to believe that Scotland can go alone. 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

7 minutes ago, ratchers said:

Come on this is simple, The Scots hate the English for historic reasons, nothing to do with politics.

Don't dress it up for any other reasons.

Now that is a lot of ****.

I genuinely don't know anyone who hates the English. And I mean that. In all the years I've been alive, and all the folk I've met. No one I have ever known has hated the English. A lot are pro English and a lot who like to take the mickey out of our Southern friends but in a friendly way. Like we do with each other over religion,  football or whatever. 

Its simply a case for some Scots that they want Independence as they can see the benefits. But likewise, a lot want to stay as part of the Union. But what it isn't, is some kind of deep rooted hatred stemming from hundreds of years ago.

The British public have largely forgiven the Japanese for horrendous atrocities committed a relatively short time ago so am sure us Scots have forgiven the English for any naughty behavior 300 years ago. Apart from when England play any football team of any nationality 😉

 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

11 minutes ago, clangerman said:

who else? someone who can remember who paid for their wallpaper would be a good start lol 

 😄   

[Scotland SNP gains.]

11 minutes ago, harkom said:

Stu ... may I recommend useful source of reference on the historical aspect of The Union.... BY an independent viewer, well ...by an American.

The Scottish Enlightenment..... the Scots' Invention of the Modern World

by Arthur Herman

 

Really?

Thank you for the recommendation, I will read up on that as I have other pro Union papers/books.

12 minutes ago, harkom said:

Stu ... may I recommend useful source of reference on the historical aspect of The Union.... BY an independent viewer, well ...by an American.

The Scottish Enlightenment..... the Scots' Invention of the Modern World

by Arthur Herman

 

Really?

Sorry, the last piece of my reply was worded clumsily and rushed. Majority of Scots didn't vote SNP. I meant they where the majority party. Couple of years back, I think it was 45% of the vote or something 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

4 minutes ago, harkom said:

So..., what you advocate ..is.....what is on offer....is not what is on offer to YOU....the voter, the mug electorate. Suck it UP you punters at the ballot box....er?? wwwhich  X .. goes where?? *** have i voted for??

So who else do you vote for?

Tories, Scotland hasn't voted for a Tory Government for decades but still get lumbered with one. They are generally disliked here.

Labour. Useless.

Green party. Pro independent as well

Lib Democrats, no thanks

Etc etc

No political party is ideal. Its a case of voting who is the best for your individual reasons. For the majority of Scots, its SNP

[Scotland SNP gains.]

4 minutes ago, Lampwick said:

How come us nasty English haven’t stolen it all then? 
I wish you all the best with your Independence! 

Don't be so hard, you English are not all nasty.

Thank you

Just now, harkom said:

not directed as a barb.... more of a a bit of friendly advice.

Not taken as anything else as a friendly argument and banter.

If I was short with anyone else, I do apologise. I was bombarded with notifications and trying to reply to them all. 

Will see you all at the border, I will be the one standing with the pitch fork wearing my kilt shouting 'Freeeedddooommmmmm...

[Scotland SNP gains.]

Just now, harkom said:

If.... but ...only ...if ...you do not agree with submission of scotland to rule from brussels ...why would you want to vote for krankie & co? I just don't get that.🤫

Because a vote for SNP is a vote to try Independence and the chance to get a different party in later with different views on Europe. Maybe its the lesser of two evils 😁

[Scotland SNP gains.]

5 minutes ago, markm said:

Well fill ya boots fella and good luck to you and everyone else.
 

Ironically, move away from the borders and there is such an anti English feeling it’s unreal. 
 

What Scotland doesn’t realise is move away from Northumberland and Cumbria, a lot of the population want shot of you (and a border). 
 

I find independence sad, but inevitable. You make your bed and lie in it.  The pessimist in me hopes you fail big time. 

Thank you for your sentiments, thats very big of you.

If Independence comes, I think Scotland would do well. If not, its down to us

5 minutes ago, harkom said:

stu..boy... I will now defer to the wisdom of G Carlin..... " never argue with .....  only beat you with experience".

Have a good weekend.

Its funny how people run out of arguments and resort to insults. Actually happened very early on in the thread.

Have a good weekend too Sir

[Scotland SNP gains.]

Just now, johnphilip said:

Some in Scotland  may want independence,  and I accept  that , but the SNP party are not the ones to run an independent  country . They can not run a devolved  country as it is , they are for ever hand back powers to Westminster,   

 

I agree. I would not want SNP to run an Independent Country on their present form

5 minutes ago, harkom said:

 hope that you do not mind me asking.... but I would appreciate a list of your references (independent/ academic) that make a compelling case for Indy.

If you don't mind waiting, I will gladly get them for you but not tonight as have things on.

[Scotland SNP gains.]

Just to clarify. 

I was always a unionist however looking into the facts and figures, it does make a compelling case for Independence for the benefit of Scotland but unfortunately, to the detriment of the UK.

The SNP have their faults but a vote for Independence is a also a vote to possibly have a different party in an Independent Scotland 

Just now, harkom said:

I neither expect nor need your pampering. I only make the point that if you are going to make outlandish claims on a public website that you can actually substantiate your regurgitation of propaganda.

To be fair, I am trying to respond to several different replies at a time so not capable of proving anything I say at this time. However, I'm putting the info out there. People can take it at face value or look for evidence to support it or dismiss it. If I'm wrong, provide evidence and I will double check and apologise if I'm wrong. 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

1 minute ago, harkom said:

and what are you trying to elucidate with this figure?

That the cost to the British taxpayers for Scottish welfare state is not as bad as is often made out

[Scotland SNP gains.]

5 minutes ago, harkom said:

so... if you have such big runs of wild salmon,,,, why are you releasing them. .. after "playing" them ..on the end of a "nail".... and then going to the supermarket to buy a bit of "stuff" ...packaged and labelled as ....errr...salmon?

ok then... go on ..give me the names and their ranking.   (remember Gordon Brown was a product).

Do you think I've got the time or inclination to pamper to your needs. Go and Google it yourself 

Just now, Walker570 said:

Agree for what I read that is a fair amount of wishful thinking.

If in doubt,  check it out. If its wrong,  I will double check myself and apologise for unintentionally misleading anyone 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

10 minutes ago, markm said:

Yet another ‘SNP’ rhetoric trip up. How many tax payers in Scotland as a proportion of the adult population?

 

6 minutes ago, harkom said:

Too true JP..... you, as non-native (= not dyed in the bs) ...are only too well aware that somebody UK has to provide funds for the freeloaders to follow their hedonistic impulses.

Scotlands welfare costs under £3100 per head for benefits and pension.

North East England is just under £3300.

[Scotland SNP gains.]

6 minutes ago, harkom said:

 

so ...are you saying that educational standards are irrelevant.... just so long as it is "free"? Seems to me that UK gov. and its predecessors have been also dumb in their approach to apportionment from the common purse?

No, I said education has slipped over last few years. But I also said that this needs to be addressed. However,  fact is that Scotland has free uni places and some of the best universities in the UK. 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

Just now, markm said:

Cos in Scotland, SNP pays for everything. 

No, I do as do all the other taxpayers 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

5 minutes ago, harkom said:

Perhaps truer than ever before - in view of the falling educational standard in scotland?

True our education is slipping. Something that needs rectified but university education is still free. How much does it cost in England?

[Scotland SNP gains.]

1 minute ago, Stimo22 said:

Please explain if Scotland is so rice with resources and assets why they want to go back into the EU . Is it because they believe they will get net gain from them or will they be a net contributor like the UK was

Not got much in the way of rice resources unfortunately 😕 

I don't agree with wanting back into Europe and thats a long discussion for another day. However, Scotland is loaded with resources 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

2 minutes ago, markm said:

So why do you need UK £?  GERS….. ah yes, that is what was stopping you using your resources…..

We contribute our fair share to Westminster. Westminster overspends and apportions a share of the overspend as our 'debt' even though its spent on things like Trident, HS2 etc

[Scotland SNP gains.]

1 minute ago, harkom said:

HMMMmmmm....perhaps you should check up on your "report" 's veracity .   .er, just guessin' here but I have to ask did these figures come out of Krankie house?

Tell you what, you disprove my statistics. I'm busy.

And personally, I don't like Sturgeon though she comes across well at times

[Scotland SNP gains.]

4 minutes ago, markm said:

I suppose Angus R got voted in because there are many more gullible fools who listen to independence rhetoric (just like yourself). 
 

 

Not rhetoric. Maybe independence is appealing when you are subjected to racist and insulting comments from some of our Southern brothers

[Scotland SNP gains.]

4 minutes ago, London Best said:

And, seemingly, 95% of the communist idiots.

Got our fair share of idiots, thats true but more than our fair share of natural resources 

[Scotland SNP gains.]

29 minutes ago, markm said:

Edinburgh Central voted in Angus Robertson. I’m gobsmacked, more proven sleaze than Boris….
 

I was the biggest support of the union, but now give them their independence, give them their share of the UK debt, build a hard border and don’t allow them back.

Scotland reportedly has 96% of the crude oil, 81% of untapped coal reserves, 65% of natural gas, 62% of timber production, 92% of hydro electric power, 40% of wind/wave electricity, 90% of all freshwater, 60 % of fish landed etc etc etc 

Feel free to build your hard border 😉 

[S Yorks Show & Game Fair ad in BASC magazine]

28 minutes ago, saddler said:

So, some of that dross was NOT 100% guesswork??

I can easily counter the BS re: "laws are generally changed by public opinion influencing politicians who in turn change policy or law... " - to pick just one
The Scottish AirWEAPONS Certificate was 100% driven by SNP policy and party interests - in the form of one or two acerbic individuals. A public consultation prior to the new law coming onto the statute books was overwhelmingly against any further airgun controls in Scotland... So, which "public opinion" influenced the politicians here?

An educated guess, I would say. As I clearly stated. And you obviously never picked up on my comment that laws are 'generally' changed by public opinion/pressure. Not always. In the case of the SNP, they are anti gun. And they know they have the support of the public.

 I've tried to be reasoned in my argument advocating that all shooters need to be ambassadors of their sport and not resorting to calling posts 'dross or BS' if you disagree with them. That says more about your character than anything. 

41 minutes ago, saddler said:

In al your decades of shooting, I take it you have never done any form of classic target shooting, using military rifles?

For YOUR education into this "form of shooting" - military rifles normally have the sights regulated to be correct for "x" distance with the bayonet fitted
Quite a lot of classic UK comps. run by the HBSA, LERA, etc. do have specific competition categories for various patterns or military rifle, of assorted vintage, which require the issued bayonet to be fitted during the course of fire!!

More than happy to defer to your broader knowledge and experience though if you have information to the contrary?

Thats the first I've ever heard of any civilian rifle shooting that requires a fixed bayonet. Every day is a school day. If that's what you're in to, good luck. Just to clarify, 4 decades of shooting for me. Both professionally and recreational.