tomov

It cost the taxpayer circa £30,000 on top of that for the 40 summonses that the RSPCA tried to bring against the Heythrop that were dismissed. Good use of money? Driven by concerns for welfare or driving a political agenda? Fairly clear I think.

All fair points Falcon FN and I will admit that I'm not terribly comfortable with all aspects of big game hunting myself. Just something about the idea of hunting big cats makes me a bit uneasy. However, I guess if I'm honest that's more to do with popular perception and lack of knowledge about the sustainability of hunting those species than any concerns about animal welfare or the 'humanity' of doing so (not sure that's very well expressed - hope it makes sense). Funny thing perception isn't it. I'd personally never shoot a fox unless forced to do so - only scoundrels ever would you see, a true gentleman would let Charlie take his chance in front of the pack (in happier, pre ban days obviously). All these pictures of lamped foxes (sometimes in fair numbers) seem a bit odd to me. But if that's your bag, there's plenty of foxes about and you're doing it as humanely as you can, then more power to you. I still can't get my head around how people think that shooting stuff is ok but hunting with hounds isn't though!. (Not aimed at you MM - I think I can see where you are coming from, although my view obviously differs a bit ).

I know I've already said this earlier in the thread, but I'm amazed at how many people on here are happy to shoot live quarry and even pursue other stuff with dogs but appear to condemn hunting with hounds. If you're really that bothered by hunting, how can you go shooting or ratting? Genuine question, not trying to cause a row, I just can't get my head around the thought process. Bruno22rf - if you read this, in turn, thanks for your mature response. I gues we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Good hunting to you!

Thanks for the reply Bruno22rf. Just to put you at ease, I simply clicked on your profile so that I could see what sort of shooting you take part in. The rest, as they say, is history... I'm not really into internet stalking since all that unpleasantry I had with the restraining order. My point is that in over 30 years shooting I find it unlikely that you've never wounded something that has legged it. That means it's likely you've been responsible for causing something unecessary pain over what was probably a reasonably prolonged period. I personally think it's a bit rich (if you are in that position), to get too condemnatory about hunting with hounds. But that's just me. Do feel free to disagree. (And I think you know that was the point I was making).

You obviously feel pretty strongly about this bruno22rf - I notice the text in your profile. Good job you only shoot vermin and don't like driven pheasants either - all of the anti groups I quoted previously will understand that I'm sure. Brilliant effort on not wounding anything in over 30 years shooting as well. You must be quite some shot.

Or... One method involves hunting a quarry species that has evolved to hunt and be hunted, that shows no particular distress at hearing some hounds, in its own environment, with a good chance of it escaping where it is killed very quickly or escapes completely uninjured. The other involves luring an unsuspecting creature using all the technology known to man, sometimes playing on it's hunger or mating instincts and dazzling it with a bloody great torch before wounding it so it can die a lingering death. It's all in the marketing Dave. And the hunting (with hounds) world was **** (bad) at marketing for a very, very long time! (The shooting community should take note here!). I agree by the way - that fox acts very strangely, there's definitely something up with it. Let's hope it lives a long and happy life in the home for old foxes that Mrs Gilbert will have found for it and that it gets good medical treatment when the end comes. Cause that's what happens to wild animals isn't it?

Tell you what, you can contact Judy Gilbert through her good friend Penny Little, whose website is here - http://www.littlefoxes.org.uk/ . Explain to them that you shoot foxes and see what response you get... Look at the reaction to the badger cull - there's a whole lot of people out there who just don't see why anything should die. Ever. In any way... And spare me the stuff about the 'quick shot that foxy never knew was coming', I've been around a bit. Step forward the shooter who has never had something leg it with a dose of lead in it or thinks it could never happen to them. Sure, 99 times out of 100 all's rosy, but that one time it goes wrong, who gets to judge the suffering of the fox that is limping around with blood poisoning that eventually starves vs the one that hounds take a few seconds to kill? Doesn't look all that black and white to me... (Which is why I will never condemn shooting or hunting with hounds).

I haven't really got much to add to some of the posts here but to aid those who may not know much about hunting with hounds: 1) You can tell that hounds were not hunting the fox, simply because there is no record of them 'speaking' (barking) as they are following it's scent trail. 2) The huntsman is simply using his horn to communicate with his hounds - in the first few frames he's encouraging them to draw or look for the trail. He's actually calling hounds back to him in the bit of the video immediately preceding the clips of the fox. 3) You can see that the hounds are surprised to see a fox that has just jumped up in front of them. 4) Make no mistake about it, if the woman hadn't intervened, that fox would have been very dead in less than ten seconds. There are some well off folk who go hunting. There's also a shed load of folks who have perfectly normal jobs and lives just like a lot of people on here. I'm sure an awful lot of the public think that all shooters drive range rovers and shoot 'grice'... As has already been pointed out, the video was filmed by a very well known anti hunting activist - to say the woman has an axe to grind is understatement of the century. To those who shoot live quarry but don't like hunting with hounds, I must admit, I find your thinking a bit odd, but you're entitled to your opinion. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that people like Judy Gilbert, LACS, POWA, IFAW or the hunt sabs will find what you do any more acceptable though will you guys?

Nice story if it's true. Some sub-editor at the Irish Times did well with the headline!!

Wildfowler I just wanted to say well done! I've watched this thread for about 6 months and I am seriously impressed with your skill and dedication. That's a hell of a thing to be able to tell folk that you made yourself from scratch! Good luck with it and keep us posted on progress with the gun. I think I've just added 'having a session in a gunning punt' to the things I needto do before I die list!

Churchills at High Wycombe - HP14 3NS Sheephouse Shooting Supplies - Slough side of Maidenhead - SL68HJ The former is a nice place, bit top end but great service and you can grab a coffee too (and of course there's a clay ground). The latter has a lot of stock but I personally wouldn't use it because I didn't like the owner. Dunkield just beat me!

ASDA in High Wycombe has Shooting Times and Countryman's weekly. I suspect that the real driver is commercial demand, pure and simple. As for the proposal, clearly ********, dreamt up by arguably the UKs most extreme animal rights organisation - I'm surprised The Torygraph gave it space. Should be roundly rejected and seen for what it is - an attempt to marginalise a law abiding group because one set of individuals sees fit to attempt to impose its morality on another. I'll email ASDA and tell them I'm delighted to see such publications in there and how it encourages me to shop with them.

Thames Valley do issue first FACs without a mentoring condition imposed - I know this because I've got one. Of course, there may be some variation in the way different FEOs approach the task of licensing an individual. As Kent says above, do your homework, prepare and present your argument and I would think you stand a good chance of not being deemed to require a mentoring condition. TVP have been pretty reasonable in all of my dealings with them. I'm just down the road from you Ross - send me a pm if you want to know how I went about it. Tom

Well put. You are of course entitled to your view Christopher, but you must surely have known that to express it in such a fashion could be perceived as one organisation casting aspersions on another.

Of course he hasn't got a source for it - he's talking twoddle. Did the CA say that shooting foxes sometimes results in injury? Yes. Did that line get over used / over egged ? Yes (although personally I think given the position hunting with hounds was in at the time, its understandable that the nuances of all the arguments didn't come across). Did the CA ever say "shooters should be banned". Did they hell as like.

I've just moved to High Wycombe and am 33. I'm not married but I'm definitely not up for any 'extra curricular' woodland activities with members of the same sex. Nothing wrong with that but it's just not my bag baby... More seriously, I shoot centrefire and rimfire. I have a couple of very small bits of ground that I can shoot on and am about to start some serious door knocking - I'd happily enter into a co-operative arrangement with the right person (s). Tom