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B B

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Everything posted by B B

  1. Yes "The nay Sayers" . it is strange how actively biased some peoples attitude to the sub 12 .25s can be, and just ringing around trying to find a .25 especially a Cheapo hatsan a brand many dealers dont stock and even those that did very few had a .25 . I firmly believe if i had not had a long history of firearms ownership and use and had a good idea of how such a sub12 .25 would perform, the biass against sub 12 .25s was so prevalent i would have probably given up. Just look back in this thread its there to see, I have had a great many .177 and .22s and even a .20 sheridan back in the day all worked and guess what so dose the sub 12 .25. In use the only suprising thing was the hatsan 1000x itself its accuracy/consistancy is good. I consider that .25s trajectory akin to a sub 12 .22 shooting a heavier pellet i consider shooting the H&N FTTs lighter pellet helps with the trajectory problems so many seem to get hung up on when .25s are debated especially sub 12s and a springer too a cheap springer" sacrilege" On closing remember the old elmer keith quote " Big holes let lots of cold air in" Well thats as may be but it kills decisively that much i do know. More of less than a well placed .177 or .22 ?the doubters may ask. Well I will add this, i have never had any air rifle stop rats so reliably with barely a kick in my life that bigger pellet works decisively IMO. .
  2. That is my opinion too but it depends on the ranges you want to shoot at. Keep Range in the 20s or get used to the trajectory they will retain more energy than the lighter20.06 grain ftts i use. The heavier .25s are slow compared to .22s and certainly .177s but at 30/35 or more yards the pellets weight holds onto more ftlbs its just a matter of learning the trajectory at various ranges in that curve. Fathom that by reticule plex or milldots etc and you have an effective rifle.
  3. The thing is with the .25 its slow and by the time it gets to 30/35 yards its only in the 5 to 6ftlbs area, yet its still enough to kill a rat if you can actually hit it, to go over this range in a 12ftlbs format anyway would be beyond my abilities i believe the guns abilities and just not worth attempting . Hitting is the decider if you can at 30 yards fine go with that, but really 25 yards is a much more reasonable range for practical purposes everything taken into account and if you are running any pellets over the 20.06grains of the H&Nftts sure you will retain a bit more ftlbs of energy at 25 to 30 yards say but the lighter pellets have that bit more speed at the closer ranges say20 to 25 yards you typically use the rifle at. the longer range shots are achievable on rats the power is there and .25s are accurate but the trajectory aspect needs attention and perfecting to hit reliable, and again past say a max of 35yards its out there in my opinion. The charts posted on page one show this clearly.
  4. I have thought about a bigger mag possibly a 3_9 x scope but the 4x is fine on rats out to the 35 yards i have been shooting this .25. Not sure i will gain anything i think the 4x works adequately for what i am doing and i have no intentions of using this rifle at longer ranges to be fair.
  5. The Hatsan 1000X .25 is over 18 months old now over 2k pellets through it and its working perfectly well, i am now very used to the some what lobby trajectory of the .25 and i am connecting reliably into the 30/35 yard area now on rats which are a small target at that range for me that rifle and a 4x scope. But familiarity is good in my opinion and i know this set ups capabilities well, its consistent and sticking with the Gun scope and h&N FTTs is paying dividends. I am Liking the .25 and was considering buying a NP02 in.25, But slow deliverey had me give up on a .25 PCP and i just persevered with the springer, and indeed purchased a Hatsan 900X.177 just to add to the hatsan brand thing and down to just how impresed i am with the budget spring powered .25s accuracy levels, the 900x.177 is again a keeper and accurate and all for £90, i mean what do you want on such a low budget.
  6. I can only advise what works very well in my hatsan at4410 .177, it thrives on H&N FTTS . think they are 8 and a bit grains without looking.
  7. OH yes i can relate to that fact only too well, my knees are shocking and i fear it wont be too long until i need some sort of surgery.
  8. Stand if its practical but equaly if hide is super low profile sitting will do, a decent compromise is kneeling its not as good as standing but less restrictive than seated proper.
  9. I dont know £20 is not much but the money i spent just getting to the hogan was starting to get silly. I was lucky i got rid of the Kral and Kept the weiruch for my incredibly noisey crosman 2240 Now that thing really needs a silencer.
  10. The way the hogan is made the end cap will drill out for .25 easy its thickish too. I will just buy another hogan, its perhaps not as quiet as a A&M marksman, but its close from what i saw on videos. This ear splitting crack from PCPs I just dont get this at all. its Like quieter than a subsonic rimfire with a say parker hale mod on it. And i am still not convinced it is of any decernable advantage on killing animals either. it still makes a thud when you hit things thats over 100dba on a tin can, thus louder than an silenced air gun at the muzzle, with air guns you are juggling with no more than 10DBa respectively. the rimfire probably twice that which is worth wile. but just not seeing more than 10DBA with air rifles. The DBA thing is really all you can go off with a credible measurement of efficiencey. The Oh my mod is quiet my results on rats crows whatever prove this etc sounds convincing but stands up to no scrutiny has no relevance to efficiency of silencing. The DBa meter might not be a perfect medium to assess a silencers efficiency but its certainly all i could think of put it that way.
  11. Keeping it for tests, and can use it for bikes stay sub 100DBA. They are on sale right now from when i got mine gone down a quid or so. here is fleabay number for those interested. 204261574646 its a common type several selling them varrious prices.
  12. I can hear as i said differences of about 2DBa, its got to be when the background base line noise if you like is into the 30s once it gets 40+ its harder, and you need a open area the echo if you like reverberating around a empty yard or buildings even a woodside can send readings higher. Strangely enough the Readings downrange at 20M are only a couple of DBAs lower and unlike say a full bore moderator that due to distance tends to make creatures very unsure as to the shooters location, the short ranges involved in air rifles leave anything in no doubt at all the direction of the shooters position.
  13. Update. I bought a Hogan decimeter. For the .177. Yes and it was quieter than the Weiruch , But still the unsilenced Rifle seemed accepted noisier but not a vast difference. Could not carry on like this, Noisier a bit quieter terms like that were verging on comedy and about as vague in describing the effects these varrious moderators have on the noise. So bought a DBA meeter, nothing major was £18 off ebay. Waiting for it to come, and cold nights i spent a bit of time looking at varrious air gun Mods silencers tests on the internet and some showed a bare PCP clocking 90 to 100 DBAs and one test with several silencers had them all between about 88dba to the quietest being 78DBA. It was near imposible given the vast aray of different recording gear used in these videos to draw much from the footage, But many had DBA readings i could sort of cross reference with to draw some sort of conclusion from my point of view. The sound meeter came and i got started, I started with the rimfire, A 452 BRNO and some CCI subsonic ammo. My readings on three shots bare rifle were 103/ 101 and 99 DBA. with the vame moderator it was 91/ 88 and 88 DBA . This i felt was about right, and even when cross referencing my readings with various youtube videos it seemed in the ball park is i feel appropriate terminology. My own bench mark established, i moved on to the air gun silencers / moderators . the bare .177 was 90/ 89 and 90DBA, with the unknown original silencer, i got 85/84 and 83 DBA. The Weiruch Produced 82/83 and 81 DBA the Kral was 84/ 84 and 85 DBA . Borowed a Huget silencer, that was 80/ 81 and 79 DBA And finaly the Hogan decimeeter was 78/ 77 and 76 DBA. Now a few points observations and Thoughts based on all this. Meeter 30 to 130 DBA and during all tests which were done on a cold bright still morning in an open field with a background noise of around 44DBa to around 55DBA with a pigeon calling in the distance. I noticed i could tell when i was to get a lower reading audibly i believe i could tell the difference of about 2DBA, as for the real world Silencing as such, In my view The silencers start to work Once you get around 80 DBA if you get in the 70s i thin k your possibly on to something. but fealy you are regardless of air rifle silencer talking a span from late 70s DBA to late 80s DBA tops. Its that narrow of a sound range. seems to me the higher the DBA the less i could differentiate the sounds accurately . One last thought, on a youtube video a well known air gun chap, did a test on some silencers and the A&M was the quietest on his meeter he got 78 DBA , i never tested a A&M but think they sound as good if not quieter than the Hogan , and judging from my readings i believe i might se 75DBA from an A&M . I think the youtuber might have had a bit better DBA meeter than me. Not scientific but i did what i could do within my limited capabilitis to show what i feel about the whole concept of air rifle silencing. Its there for you to draw your own conclusions from or not as the case may be.
  14. I reload most of my steel, but for longer passing shots i have used RC three inch 36 gram 1s as above, and for factory ammo they are good. For closer decoying again i reload , but i had some NSI 32 gram 4s a couple of seasons ago, they were acceptable. My advice start reloading.
  15. Good info, the SAK is about £40 thats £37 less than a A&M marksman, i might just gamble on a SAK and Drill out the end cap section. I do no walking about with either of the PCps i have, Both are just rats off rests or off door rest i mount on fastened down with a bungee cord to the door bottom on the truck. Any rabbits for the pot walking about on land i would use brno 452 rimfire or round farm yards.410 or in buildings air pistols. I cant say i ever considered walking about much with a PCP if i wanted this i would probably go with the Crossman ratcatcher as you used. at £40 i will try the SAK thanks.
  16. Not got the A&M yet still looking at my options, it looks good watching reviews on phone but might get something else yet. The hogan decimeeter looks madginaly cheaper shorter and still quietens well looking at figures. The real world differences as in what you can acctualy diferentiate audibly one to another on these mods seems pretty minimal from what i can tell. But the HW mod on the hatsan is noticably quieter than the whatever mod it came with is. .25 is a Kral NP02 its audible but again not ear splittingly load, may be coming from ceasefires even rim fires i am higher up the sound acceptance threshold some what. Was shooting rats facing into a yorkshire boarded cattle shed the other day and even with the stock mussle brake thing on the kral.25 the other rats seemed oblivious just ten yards away. the smack hitting rats was equaly load as the report on firing. I tell you loudest air rifle i ever heard is crossman 2240 CO2 pistol its heaps louder than the unmodded hatsan AT44 or the NP02 .25.
  17. I know where there is a BSA SXS choked full and not a lot its about 61/2 pounds has 30 inch jesops fluid steel barrels 2.5 inch chamber and has shot thousands of rounds of steel shot modified lightening steel reloads 28 gram of 4s at 1600fps in 67mm chedite cases. Its as tight as it ever was and because its a good fit for the owner recoil is of no consequence. There is no reason similar guns loaded with slower more progressive steel powder and 4 gram lighter but faster LOADS Than your typical 32 gram lead game load should not continue to function just the same as they have done for the past 20 years with steel. If people simply dont want to use steel that is fine, but to try and say there is no steel options out there its just not the case. And before anyone chimes in "Well i dont reload" Again but get with it or pay out for bismuth its that simple. Ammo manufacturers could produce steel ammo to match the Lightening steel reloads and probably will when the lead shot ban chickens finally come home too roost and they have no option.
  18. I onlyb made reference to screw in extended chokes with reference to said Nigel teague , not so much other reasons other than the fact such choke restrictions exist. As for fixed chokes and steel, there is absolutely no reason you can not use a normal steel load even a 3 inch magnum one in a extra full fixed choke gun. even the prof house states this. I have shot thousands of steel shot loads through varrious fixed full guns from franchi beretta browning and others with no ill effects on the guns themselves or the way they performed. I used an extra full zabala LP10 3.5 inch ten bore for over 15 years with BBB(4.86MM) steel reloads doing 1585 FPS not a bulge scratch or rivel in sight. I still use a 32 inch full and 3/4 choked Elderkins chieftain 12bore 3 inch mag with 36 gram BB reloads Again that into the thousands and no ill effects. I could quote others a Beretta 680 trap gun and SKB trap gun spring to mind. I used the SKB trap as a steel shot pigeon gun and nothing awry with it whatsoever.
  19. A god place for TSS data is or at least was gobbler nation, take a look. Hawglips if he is still around is the chap used to be very helpful. take a look and Look and ask on duck hunt chat too. some knowledgeable on there too. Gobbler nation.. https://gobblernation.com/phpBB3/index.php
  20. No not watched teagues video input, once talked to someone at teague chokes and it was with reference to tighter than full choke tube options for HP steel, The opinion was negative to such a choke constriction. So That was that, i consider Teague can offer me nor anyone else any feedback on effective long range or otherwise steel choke tubes. Ask anyone who has done much with steel here in the states or pretty much anywhere in the world and there are plenty utilizing way tighter than your typical 40 though full choke constrictions in extended aftermarket steel choke tubes and reaping the benefits of such chokes, this has been going on well over 20 years with the likes of Hastings SRM Terror Jebs and many more. Remember this, barrels bulged showed riveling and stress fatigue issues generaly since time begun even with lead. Burard and others explain this and show details in numerous publications of the time. Steel will just the same as lead cause sumilar issues for basicaly the same reasons. But load Steel in the corect way and in guns suitable for the pressures involved in those loads and there will be no more issues than with lead. Start loading steel or lead outside the safe perameters and or have some secondary complication like an over oiled or obstructed bore and negative things will hapen. its all basic stuff this and steel is neither any worse or indeed better than lead its just not lead and thats mostly the problem . Many would hate steel and dream up any number of nightmare scenarios that its of course possible to find with any shot type, but generaly steel is fine all things being equal. .
  21. The loosing load space idea is all well and good, but its not like steel is weightless its robbing the load of the potentially more lethal pellets. OK you can not load all the available space with TSS so why bother just run a lower density version like 15 v or 13 or perhaps bismuth. Its counter productive at least the filler or packers are just space takers not taking payload potential. I f its to try and save money i think again its counter productive, and personalty would rather have the TSS used in TSS loads not being used in Duplex loads of some what dubious credibility if i may say so.
  22. The steel shot not to be put through tight choke thing should have died a death 20 +years ago, but here we are still hearing it today from people who really should no better. There are Thousands of older full and extra full shotguns that have shot steel for decades with no ill effect. add to this multi chokes made with even tighter restrictions for steel shot that are screwed in to older guns made pree 1999 and steel in wildfowling in the uk and before that in some other countries. Its just not a problem, any issues that have ever been seen around a few of these aftermarket chokes as been associated with less than tight factory accepted Tolerance control on barrels often running old mobil choke systems or similar. Even the prof house here has no restriction on choke constriction with standard steel shot loads. I think its time to just move on, steel is what it is if it has to be used just use it there is nothing scary hidden round the corner not even skeletons in any cupboards.
  23. B B

    177 Slugs

    Tried a few different slugs in .177 Hatsan AT44 10, i so far found the ZAN 10 grain the most accurate and ZAN 13 only slightly worse. I Think the thing is with slugs and a lot of the inconsistencies some find with them are not strictly down just the need for speed to stabilize. 650/ 700 FPS is fine the big thing with the Hatsan AT44 is juggling the unregulated nature of the thing, and equally important getting the slug into the barrel neatly. Not tried the mag just loaded off single shot tray, this i found mattered how smoothly you chambered the slug and if you just popped the slug in racked it home the difference in FPS and thus accuracy was very marked. I don't see the same FPS variation with pellets they seem more forgiving somehow. If i fill the Gun with air off the bottle shoot five shots with any old pellets then Switch out to the single shot, I got about 25 very consistent in FPS shots regardless of ammo type. And if i load the slugs gentle feel it in steady if you understand its actually quite astounding how accurate the ZANs are in this gun. The thing is by trial and error i found what this unregulated gun liked and needed to shoot the slugs well, and it could be anyone who has a better regulated gun perhaps has a lot easier time of it than me. On the subject of FPS, if you can keep your variance in the sub 10s or certainly under 20fps i think you stand a good chance of some shot on shot accuracy with these slugs, but once the pressure starts to change you get that single shot out of the group wrecking it. In my case i think a good aftermarket regulator of some kind would help a lot.
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