Westward

The Ascent variants go some way towards suiting your tastes but fixed chokes aren't standard on any UK models. I think in America they have some f/c trap models. Most competition sporters these days seem to have palm swells, usually more pronounced than CGs and from memory, every 682 & DT I've ever picked up has had a noticeable palm swell. I wouldn't be surprised if palm swells are optional on high end guns but, like most factory makes, CG doesn't offer much customisation The engraving isn't rolled BTW, it's outsourced to the Giovanelli Studio and is their proprietory laser cut process with hand finishing - which is exactly what Beretta does with the 687 EELL.

What would you say needs to be put right? I think the standard Invictus 1 is somewhat expensive for a standard grade gun, but like all the CGs It seems a pretty competent performer straight out of the box.

Don't leave it in the sun. Light is good for curing, heat is not.

Exactly the same can be said of other guns. It's common with Brownings/Mirokus and especially DT-10s but, as with the DT-10 and unlike Brownings etc. it's a simple quick and inexpensive fix. The best way to avoid it on any of these guns is to properly lubricate the forend knuckle. As for rust, next time you see a Perazzi owner giving his gun a wipe down and pull through after a shoot, ask him/her why...

Did you say what area you're from? If so I missed it, but if we know where you are then people could recommend some good instructors.

They seem to be getting quite popular in America where they are spending marketing money trying emulate the success of Guerini, but over here I don't think their image was helped much by have a fishing tackle shop in Lancaster as the distributor until a couple of years ago. I've seen and handled 2 or 3 new ones recently and first impressions were quite positive. Going by the specs I wouldn't say they're overpriced but I'm not sure I'd want to commit that kind of money without more input from existing owners.

I think the Essex is discontinued. They had 2 very similar sideplated guns competing at almost the same price and the Magnus won. Last time I looked, Ian Coley had several NIB models of the Essex available.

Things change but often enough attitudes and opinions stick. CGs use an action design which is similar to that used by multiple Italian, Turkish and Spanish guns. It's often referred to as the "Rizzini" action and historically, most such guns were in the budget gun category. Bettinsoli, Lincoln, Franchi, Sabatti, Lanber etc. are typical makers. A lot of people, particularly gunsmiths and the old timers, perceived CGs as simply blinged up budget guns at rip off prices and I have to confess to having once held a similar view. About 6 years ago I was casting around for a new sporter and asked a local gunsmith about Guerinis. He was quite critical and said: "When you get ejector problems, and you will, don't bring it to me!". So i made a point of searching for any history of ejector problems with CGs and any other recurring problems for that matter. To date I've never found any sort of weakness in the design or engineering of these guns. A few months ago I went to see the same gunsmith and told him I now had a CG and It was the best fitted, best finished and best built gun I'd ever owned he said: "Nothing wrong with CGs at all, good guns but they use roll pins and I don't like them because they're awful things to get out". I pointed out that, unlike my SV10 Beretta, my CG has no roll pins anywhere and he thanked me for that. The CG action lock up method is just like Browning and Blaser, the triggers and firing system is a much refined version of the Browning system with the addition of Beretta style interceptor sears, and the ejectors operate the same way as a Perazzi. Barrel regulation is within 2" of POA and barrel convergence also within 2", which is up to 4 times closer than Beretta's stated tolerances. When you weigh up all the benefits and extras with a CG it seems a nonsense that the street price of a standard Summit is £5-600 less than a standard 692.

My sentiments exactly. And in fact many of the CGs on the used market are from owners changing to a different CG model.

They were never built by Rizzini. For the 1st year or so the actions were built by CG's own staff working a night shift at the Fabarm factory and using Fabarm machinery. CG cleverly picked a position in the market between the SP-1/B525/MK38 price level and the DT-10/Blaser level where the only real competition was from the 682 and the higher grade Brownings and Mirokus. After owning a Challenger for 18 months and shooting about 25 other gun varieties I wouldn't contemplate anything else anywhere near the price range - although I haven't tried the F16 as yet. CG sporters are supplied in a fitted lockable Negrini case with 8 extended chokes, branded gun sleeves, stock key, a key for the 3 different trigger adjustments and a dated and signed inspection certificate. The stocks are supplied by Essevierre and the hand finished engraving by the Giovanelli studio (just like the EELL Berettas). CG has simply applied modern business methods to the production of shotguns and released a range of guns that some sectors of the market find appealing on several levels. They are also very nice to shoot with smooth handling and superb triggers. I'm not anal about cleaning but I can bring the bores up like new with about 15 minutes soaking and a couple of patches which is very refreshing after 8 years struggling to clean various Berettas. I've never heard a single negative comment about the performance of the barrels or chokes. I know one person who bought a used Magnus and had rust appear where he handled the gun but I haven't come across anyone else with that issue or anyone with trigger problems. As for the suggestions of shooting loose it appears to relate to early ones mostly. Mine is 5 years old and still tight, but if necessary, they can be easily tightened just like the DT-10s with a simple forend insert.

There are 2 main versions of the 686E. The original model had Mobil barrels in 28 or 30" with flush chokes and the later one, re-introduced after a gap of a couple of years was dubbed 686E EVO and had standard Optima solid mid rib barrels up to 32"and extended chokes. I think it's still available new and currently has fully vented Optima HP barrels. Depending on condition and model variant, used guns fetch from 850 to 1,500 or thereabouts.

As always, my response to this kind of stupendous waste of time is: Can't they find something better to do? I can think of about 10 things they could turn their attention to which account for far more actual deaths than 1 possible/potential/theoretical death per year.

That's a neat litle Lib/Dem style theory which unfortunately isn't borne out in practice. A very high proportion of immigrants, especially those from outside the EU, have multiple health issues up to and including disabilities and this has been the case ever since large scale immigration from India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka began in the 60s. Even now, these countries cannot provide a full scale health service to their own people, and the NHS, as it always has been, is a gigantic magnet to such people. And now we are seeing ever increasing numbers of young male "refugees" from Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya etc. and multiple **** holes in Africa, the problem of supporting people with no education, no skills, often no language and nowhere to live causes ever increasing costs to the taxpayer and with no end in sight. Huge numbers of immigrants want to work but they rarely have any desire to fully participate in our society. They want the money, the schools, the NHS, the tax credits etc for a few years whilst they raise their children and remit as much cash as possible back to their home country but hardly any EU migrants when surveyed, expect to stay more than a few years. I seriously doubt if, on balance, mass immigration brings any tangible economic benefit to the country and I wouldn't be surprised if it actually costs us. Today's situation is incomparably different from earlier times when people migrated here wanting to stay and integrate. Instead, what we have today is a situation where this country adds value to the lives of 100s of thousands of temporary residents and their dependants across the world, whereas what we actually need and want is 10s of thousands who add value to Britain as well as to themselves.

The government's response: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127045?reveal_response=yes

Care to give even 2 or 3 examples... I'm not bashing the police in the form of the ordinary officers, they operate under instructions from above, but I suggest you do a bit of research into the very secretive Police Chiefs Council (formerly the ACPO) to find out what they actually do and how they operate. Then see if you can work out how successive governments allowed democracy to be hijacked in the name of protecting the public.

Hmmm. What has the antique gun collection of a deceased elderly man got to do with a terrorist attack? Come to that, when have the British police ever been required to handle a terrorist attack? The unarmed officer who confronts a knife wielding druggie in a crowded shopping mall is the one I tip my hat to. As I said; Whatever happened to the Bobby on a bicycle? Helicopters, Armed Response and para military gear impress the easily outraged media like the Mail and are spot on for cheap TV shows but it's almost always unnecessary overkill.

When does any sensible thinking comes out of the great socialist paradise of Scotlandskovia.

Personally I think there's far more danger to the public from firearms officers holding automatic weapons whilst perched on ladders and walls than from a licensed collection of old guns. Their safety record when standing on solid ground is apalling enough without pretending to be Jack Bauer. Whatever happened to the Bobby on a bicycle? These hugely expensive stupid pantomimes laid on for the media are pure propaganda to convince the gullible that the police really can protect the public.

That's because his comment about showing you what your full choke is for wasn't made in respect of his normal registered shoots. He posted that remark a couple of years ago when advertising the 'Extreme' shoots for people who wanted to practice for Dubai. Steve isn't a politician and doesn't make guarded comments and this is an example of something he once said being quoted out of context.

The FEO won't be happy if you store guns and ammo in the same location and I've been asked about it a couple of times. The idea is that even if criminals gain access to your guns they aren't much further on if they don't know where your ammo is. I seem to remember a home invasion a couple of years back at a remote farmhouse by 4 thugs who thought they could intimidate the couple whilst they stole whatever they fancied. The guy happened to have shotguns and wounded 2 of the gang causing the others to scarper. The police arrested the couple and locked them up overnight but they were released without charge. The point is that you can defend yourself and your family with lethal force if you really think lives are threatened. The law is clear on this but convincing the police might be tricky, which is why criminals get away with violence. They know that the victim is just as likely to end up in court as the attacker.

There is or was a Home Office leaflet giving guidance on security. You are correct that Chief Officers make up lots of stuff, sometimes collectively through the Police Chiefs Council or within a single Authority. I got a bo--ocking once for not informing them that I'd moved the cabinet to a more secure location. There was no point in aggravating the officer by pointing out that there was no legal requirement to do that. The fact is if they say jump, we have to say how high? They know that and they use the power it gives them to constantly feed in niggling little changes which achieve nothing except to add delays and cost to an already overly bureaucratic process. Nevertheless, it is wise to avoid getting on the wrong side of the FEOs but also to familiarise yourself with what the statutory laws actually are. As for your question: If you and your family are threatened surely your only priority is to keep everyone safe. If that means handing over the keys then so be it. I can't see the police revoking your certificate in those circumstances.

As an aside, the "rules" don't require the gun to be locked away as soon as you walk in the door. Security is solely your responsibility and your judgement which means either you or another qualified individual have to be in charge of the gun when it is not stored. Therefore as long as you're at home it's perfectly legal to stand it in the corner to dry if you wish. But, as WW says above, separating the metal parts from the wood makes oiling a much easier task and you can leave the woodwork out all week while you're at work.

What gun is it?

That is all I want to see happen. If the police act correctly and adhere to the existing legislation and Home Office guidelines they cannot possibly be held accountable. As said, it was through failing in this relatively clear and simple process that allowed the perpetrators of the tragedies to retain their guns.

Dead right. It was the police who campaigned hardest to change the guns laws after Dunblane and for a very specific reason. Ultimately they forced the changes through a brand new government, unwilling to flex it's muscles, resulting in pointless extra inconvenience to some of the most law abiding and upright citizens anywhere. The net effect being that legal gun owners had to jump through more hoops and pay more for the privilege, our Olympic medal winners found it near impossible to practice their discipline but not a single thing was changed to make another Dunblane any less likely. The real beneficiaries, as intended, were the police themselves because it diverted attention away from the fact that they had failed to revoke Hamilton's cerificates despite having received a total of 7 complaints about his behaviour with guns from 4 separate sources.