atbh61

Hi Cos, I am sorry if that is what you thought I said. However I did say " it could be helped and even worked but i would not want to work with it. Early days training should have got the dog close and paying attention miss that and its gone." Do you not think you stand a better chance of having a good working dog if the early days have gone well and the dog has bonded to you?

Sorry chaps I have been away getting a slating but will post here soon

I think you are right, but I have already beed told by admin that there will be no more pinned posts. I have a problem only with the fact that some of the training by nttf is not the way we do things here in the uk and is helpful. I have been told that I was not in a position to make this judgement so I contacted someone that was. Now you are not happy about that? In gundog training there are many ways of doing things some are the best some are ok and some are just bad. The Bad is bad no matter who says so. The point of the thread is that you can go back over it and look again at it, otherwise we could just use a chat room where its said and gone. or am I incorrect about that too?

OK very slowly and once again. It is not correct at any time to put something in a dogs mouth and hold it there. This is not only what I think but also the line taken by the top Two Gundog training organisations in the uk. You can sit here all night trying to pick a hole (note the spelling of that word as you used it incorrectly) in this but the truth is there is not one to be picked. till now you have been asking me who I was and who I was to judge now you want to say that BASC and the KC are not correct? take a stand back and think about what you are saying.

good looking dog, well done

As I just said I spoke to them, If you go to the web sites you can get the numbers and do the same. it only took a few moments. the chap I spoke to at BASC was called hugh and the young lady at the KC ( you do have to push them for a reply ) name I did not get. I hope you understand that I will not be posting private e mails here.

BASC and the KC regarding the forced hold? I have spoken to both toady and they have told me that they do not support this. I have spent a lot of time here being asked who I am and what I could know that other members do not. now however I think the boot is on the other foot. who are you guys to say that its ok? still look on the bright side any of you that are paying membership to BASC or buy a KC registered pup are paying to educate this practice out of dog training for good. so it does dot matter what you say here as your money is saying something better. All of you that have been rude to me and challenged me can now take it up with the the KC and BASC as it would seem that I am right or are you still going to tell me that you know better? One man in canada has a better understanding than the mass of brilliant uk based teaching provided?

Think thats about right.

opps! you missed my question. I asked why I should take notice of you over the BASC and the KC regarding the forced hold? I have spoken to both toady and they have told me that they do not support this. I have spent a lot of time here being asked who I am and what I could know that other members do not. now however I think the boot is on the other foot. who are you guys to say that its ok? still look on the bright side any of you that are paying membership to BASC or but a KC registered pup are paying to educate this practice out of dog training for good. so it does dot matter what you say here as your money is saying something better. All of you that have been rude to me and challenged me can now take it up with the the KC and BASC as it would seem that I am right or are you still going to tell me that you know better? One man in canada has a better understanding than the mass of brilliant uk based teaching provided?

That was a very clever reply,well done! now why dont you pop of to bed and let the big boys talk about things that you seem not to understand. If on the other hand you can tell me why I should take notice of you over the BASC and the KC I would like to know?

They are good Andy but not that good:)

As you say and I 100% agree this is a pigeon shooting forum, However I do think that the advice pinned here should reflect the training used in the UK and supported by BASC and the KC. Or am I alone in thinking that they may know more and better that nttf?

If you do not know what my point is why are you posting? If you are having problems with your evening menu, I would try having a dummy stuffed in your mouth then you may get my point.

Ok in an effort to put this to bed I have just come of the phone to BASC ( hope you are all paid up members and trust there advice?) and They said that they would never recommend this form of training to anyone, and have no knowledge anyone that would.

Sorry, who do you not know about?

Philippa Williams - Levenghyl Gundogs (displayed at crufts) I started doing training courses partly because I was horrified by some of the methods used by Old School trainers (forced Hold etc).

It is not that I am correct its is more that I know this is not,in the same way as I know hitting a dog with a stick is not the way to go. when asked Jeremy Hunt had this to say about it. The act of forcing a dummy into a dogs mouth - no matter how gentle - is very unsettling. Most dogs refuse to grip the dummy which means you then start to exert force to maintain the hold and the whole exercise disintegrates into a negative training situation.

Thank you, for this reply. you are right on many points. It is just a little strange that in the pined posts there is only on mans way of doing things.I came to this forum in the hope that we could exchange views. but found that if you do not follow nttf without question you are told you are a "newbe" and a know it all. I am not sure why so many folk here are so worried about looking at another way of training. Dog training is not something set in stone.

Yes.

ok silly old me. what could I know. I have only been training dogs for 40 years. I am sure you will all do very well without my input.

It is still a simple question, even if you want to be Sarcastic. Is it ok or not?

I have.

why would you put it on the table? and if it was happy to hold something what is the point?

So what are you all saying, there is a time when it is ok ? I dont know it all but I do know that this is never correct. and I dont need to know anything about dog training to know that.

So is it ok to stand a dog on a table and make it hold somthing?