oldfarmer

Thanks for all those comments - I had thought it was around or just prior to 1900 - so good to get confirmation. The barrel is encased in shrunk on, grey painted canvas. I suppose there may be a name somewhere underneath but it would be a great shame to disturb it. I found another photo which I thought might amuse - you can see the shot cloud emerging from the front of the smoke cloud. John

I see there are some very knowledgeable folk on the forum so hopefully someone may have an idea. I have a punt gun - with no makers name. It is a quality gun and the action is quite distinctive so someone might recognise it. It is 9' long, 1 13/16th diam bore (as far as I can tell). All the screws are individually numbered and she weighs just over 100lbs Unfortunately she didn't come with a punt so I made up a trolley to take up the recoil and transport her about. The screw thread is interesting - it slopes at the front but the rear of the threads is vertical - I guess to take the pressure - I understand this is know as a buttress or Archimedean thread. As you see it is a breech loader with dovetail cases which slide into the breech face. There is a 15 thou taper on the chamber so I assume it was designed for brass cartridges - I had three made as it didn't come with any. It also has a 10 thou taper on the dovetail slot, which makes it really easy to load the cases - not something I imagine you would find in a cheap and cheerful gun. It also comes in a 12' fitted oak box - unfortunately no label. As she is too big for wildfowling her next outing will be on the Queens jubilee weekend - I am assuming it is open season on 40 gallon oil drums by then? Here are a couple of links to some slow motion video clips...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys80KJ5FHeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8QQ6MUwORw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BuiHNBvsKk

Promatic 400 capacity Supersporting automatic clay pigeon trap. Comes complete with 50m cable. Set up for standard clay targets and uses standard 12 volt battery. In good working order, come straight from work. Regularly serviced. This is a solid, reliable machine from the UK's No 1 clay trap manufacturer. New main bearings and crank 2015. Can be seen working. £750.00 07720033415 (Worcestershire)

In the Gamebore catalogue they are just listed as 'subsonic'. We have broken crossing clays consistently at 40 yards so they will do the business. In the Hull catalogue they are also just listed as 'subsonic'. In most O/U's they will reset the inertia blocks as long as the gun is held firmly in the shoulder - but not every gun. They won't cycle the mechanism on my 20 bore 1100. Certainly not a first choice cartridge unless recoil or noise are an issue, but if they are then once you have got used to them they can be very effective. John

Why don't you buy a few and try them out for yourself? The report is certainly 'softer'. While you are at it buy some 21g loads by different manufacturers and see how they compare. We used the Gamebore subsonic for many years - both in 12 & 20 bore - because they were so soft on the shoulder in spite of having 28g loads. I have never tried them in an auto. They will kill at good distance - but at distance they will need more lead - but that is only a case of getting used to them. Most of the time we now use 21g as the recoil is not much different and they are significantly cheaper. If it means the difference between being able to shoot and not being able to shoot it is worth investigating. Other options you could try are creating acoustic barriers - either straw bales, earth bunds or shooting boxes with absorbing linings. 'Silenced' shotguns are very effective - especially when using subsonic cartridges - but one you have used one you will probably take up golf or fishing! John

Buze, Your idea of shooting 300 cartridges in a session intrigues me. I see lots of different people each week practicing their clay shooting and having lessons. To do it justice you have to be able to 'focus' and 'concentrate' to the exclusion of all else. From practical observation I would suggest that after 100 shots your mental alertness starts to fade. I certainly subscribe to the theory that once you have established a style and system that breaks a particular target you need to reinforce the mental picture by shooting it consistently several times to consolidate that image. However I don't think that most people - no matter how much weight lifting and mental exercise they do - will maintain maximum performance over 300 targets in a session. The only time I have shot 300+ cartridges in a day has been on simulated days and I know that by the end or the day I am certainly not as sharp as I was at the start. As I own a shooting ground perhaps I shouldn't be questioning your ideas but encouraging more - and the more the better - to follow in your footsteps - particularly around the South Worcester area!! What do others think? John

If you want to improve listen to what WW says - go and get at least 2 or 3 lessons with an instructor who comes recommended - not necessarily from one of the organisations. Many of the best coaches do not belong to the various organisations, as they have no need, they get their work through their reputation and personal recommendation. At the ground we get so many people who phone up having just got their brand new certificate after a long, long wait - rushed out and bought a gun and then find that can't hit anything like as many clays as they thought they would. First you need to establish a sound, simple, reliable, consistent technique - easier said than done. You need to establish a good stance, mount and fit and eye dominance. This can all be covered quite quickly but it will then give you confidence to move forward. Start off on easy clays and gradually move on to more difficult ones once you have mastered the basic techniques. You will never achieve your potential if you just blaze away at competition standard targets hoping to occasionally connect at some point. It will cost you more and be so frustrating you may well give up before reaching your potential and gaining maximum enjoyment from your sport. You certainly cant analyse someone's problems on a forum - you need to check them out and see them shoot otherwise it is just guessing blind. John

BRB are great bits of kit. avoid the cheap ones as they have limited range and don't like obstacles. I use them all the time at the shooting ground and find them very reliable. John

Good morning, If anyone is going to bring along an interesting pre 1914 gun to show off on Saturday then please drop me an e-mail beforehand so I know how many display tables to get and run through details. The best e-mail to get me on is info@swsg.co.uk Looking forward to meeting lots of new people and seeing some interesting old guns - we already have promises of flinters, percussion, pin fire, tube and pill locks coming. As a taster - this is Lees recently acquired Perrins 10 bore on it's first outing - broke the clay as well. John

A few years ago I bought some brass 14 bore shotgun cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company by post. No problem except I had to pay a small amount of import duty. The rules may have changed but I am sure an e-mail to RMC would clarify the situation. The cases were turned form solid brass so would last forever. John

Kev - if you can manage to find the M5 from the M6 on June 11th you can join us on the Vintage Gun and Perrins Owners day at South Worcester. As well as all the old guns to look at there will be the local muzzle loaders club running a 'have a go' stand. They are very knowledgeable and will be terribly enthusiastic about the great fun shooting black powder can be. Have a look at the post for more details. John

If any of you can make it to the Vintage Gun day & Perrins owners club meet on June 11th at South Worcester you will; be most welcome to bring your wonderful old guns to show them off. Let me know if you are coming so I can give you a few details - see the post covering the day. If anyone wants to set up a web site dedicated to any specific maker or type of gun and I can be of help then get in touch - there is a link on http://info71508.wix.com/perrinsgunmaker which will also give you an idea of what a complete technology numpty can achieve - with a bit of help - bearing in mind this one was born before they had even invented the pocket calculator and remembers TV's in black and white and only one channel. I see a couple of you have had difficulty loading photos of your guns, which is a great shame. The way I do it is to use 'photobucket' Open an account and upload the photos - it's free. next to the photo will appear a menu - either click or hover over the bottom option and it should turn yellow and say 'copied' All you then have to do is paste this link on the page you are writing on the forum. By magic the photo will appear. John

Good morning, I see there have been a couple of new posts regarding vintage guns and muzzle loaders. On Saturday June 11th we have our bi-annual Vintage Gun Day and Perrins Owners Club meet at South Worcester. Here are some details. Free admission - if you have an interesting pre 1914 gun you would like to display you will need a small padlock to secure it to the cord. Best send me an e-mail beforehand and I can let you have more details. John Vintage Guns Day The Perrins Gun Club, founded in 2009 to celebrate the work of John Perrins & Sons Master Gun-makers of Worcester is holding an open day Saturday 11th June South Worcester Shooting Ground Hook Common Hanley Castle Worcs. WR8 0AX 10.00 am – 3.00pm Free Entrance Besides the Perrins guns there will be a wide display of other vintage guns which last time including those of Purdey, Rigby, Holland & Holland, Thomas Horsley, and other prestigious makers. Gun experts and authors David Baker, Lew Potter, and Mark Crudginton will be on hand to provide opinion and value on owner’s guns. There will be opportunities to shoot black powder muzzle loading guns under expert supervision and clay stands are available for shooting. Anyone interested in fly fishing is encouraged to try their hand at casting under the guidance of our local expert. Plenty of parking and refreshments available. If you are interested in bringing a gun along for display or valuation then please phone before hand, John Clements 01684-310605 or 07720033415 http://info71508.wix.com/perrinsgunmaker Info@swsg.co.uk A REALLY GOOD DAY OUT!

I make up my own in MS publisher for the shooting ground as we have so many different requirements DTL, compak, snooker, 100. 80, 60 sporting and various team events. If you send me a PM with a direct e-mail address I will send you a few as attachments as I don't think I can do this through the forum. One thing I would say if you design your own put the team/individuals name at the bottom rather than the top. When it is held on a clip board it makes it easier to read and see who is next on the stand - so obvious but not many cards are printed this way. John

Just had a look through the current gamebore catalogue and I can't see the 2" cartridges listed anymore. I have a customer who is looking for some. Express do the Special light Game 26gm (7/8oz) in 2" in No. 6 shot. I don't stock Express but if you can find someone who does I would think you would be looking at around £300+ per k. John

Hi everyone - We will be having our first weekend shoot this coming Saturday March 12th. 10 stands of practice sporting with a choice of 60, 80 or 100 bird cards. There will also be a 25 bird compak running as a pool. Everyone welcome. Entries 10.00 - 1.00. We are also open every Wednesday right through the year. Have a look at www.swsg.co.uk for more details and directions. John

From memory I did try these - I think the centre dome was of a slightly larger diameter than either CCI or CPC. They tended to jam in the knife edges of the traps. I certainly wasn't going to readjust all 40 traps to change over to them as they weren't any cheaper than the CPC as there was delivery to pay on top of the quoted price. Having said that - if you were putting them through manual traps and you were close to the supplier then nothing wrong with them at all. I hope I have identified the right clays as I have tried out many different sorts and have opted to stock CPC. Apologies if I have muddled them up with a different brand. Hope this helps. John

I have been several times. I used to organise a day out each year for the South Worcester Members but they lost interest over the last couple of years. Great layout - lots of variety although they didn't change much over the years we went. The grouse stand at the top is great fun. Good high pheasants and some interesting down hill targets and teal rising out of the valley.Take some dark glasses - just in case the sun comes out on the pheasant stand. Take your very best wet weather gear as when it rains - it really does rain and if you are up at the top it has got to be 3/4 of a mile back to the club house - well it seems like it!! Not a novice layout. Make sure you keep an accurate note of the no-birds. If you haven't been before you will certainly enjoy the layout. John

Hi - If it is an old gun just check it is nitro proofed!! At the shooting ground we tend to use either Fiocchi TT1 in 24g or Gamebore Evo (fibre wad) in 24g when we have game shooters with light sxs 2 1/2" (65/67mm)guns. We do have the comp x, which are also 2 1/2" but the game shooters seem to prefer the former as their characteristics are more like their game cartridges - well at least that is what they tell me. They all come in 28g/2 1/2" as well except the Evo - the 28g and plastic wad are 70mm (2 3/4"). Get a selection and put them on a pattern plate - it is the best way to see which one your gun prefers which is more important than what you prefer!! Guns are very individual!! John

Motty - At my shooting ground I have 4 basic driven targets off the towers. The lowest is tree top height(60ft - 20yrds) - the next about a tree and a half (80ft) the next is around 2 trees - say 100ft and the midi off the big crane is probably flying over you at 130 - 140 ft but travelling faster than your average pheasant so the lead picture would be for an average 50 yard bird. The lead you actually see is so much depends on your style of shooting - ie the speed of the guns acceleration relative to the bird, your reaction time, your spaceil awareness and how you judge the gap, your ability to continue with your swing, how high your gun naturally points, how consistent your gun mount is - the list goes on - but non of this is any help for a 'quick fix' to get you hitting those last few birds this season. Where I start with shooters either new to driven shooting or having problems - and you have to start somewhere - is to suggest 1 cock pheasant lead on the tree top bird - 2 pheasants on the 1 1/2 tree bird - 3 on the 2 tree bird and 4 on the higher bird. This works as a starting off point and then we can 'tweak' the lead a little if that isn't working. Shooting off the line is just as common as getting the lead wrong. You may marvel at the fact that we can shoot moving targets at all - but most people can get to be fairly competent with a little guidance and plenty of practice. Hope this helps and you manage to connect with something. John

I have to agree with WW - my guess is that for every 2 game shooters that are missing behind I get 1 who is missing in front. The ones that miss behind can usually improve themselves - given time and plenty of birds to shoot at - as they see the tail flick - but those who are missing in front just get worse as they keep on giving more lead. As I said before - try to make a good assessment of how high your birds actually are and adjust your lead accordingly. At South Worcester we have some tall clays as well as some more modest driven targets which I try to show as realistically as possible which gives the game shot a good perspective of the different leads they need. John

How high are the pheasants - measure it in oak trees? If you are on flat land and they come out of the wood just above the trees they are not far away if they are coming straight over you. They may be all you have to shoot at as pheasants are lazy birds and it is difficult to make them fly high unless you have the right terrain. An oak tree is about 60ft - 80ft (20 yards - 25 yards) so they are as close as skeet targets - if the birds are like this you may well be in front - don't believe people when they say you can't be in front. Now if they are 3 or 4 trees high they will be 60 to 80 yards up and that is a completely different matter. Don't worry about the chokes too much unless they are above 3 oak trees high - worry more about getting the shot in the right place. John

Before we gave up the cows I used to use these .22 shot shells a lot in the calf pens - they were great at 3 -4 yards for knocking rats off as they ran along beams and up the wire netting. Now I see you live in NI. I think you can still hold pistols over there. I had a .357 revolver conditioned for use with shot for rat control - excellent sport! I loaded the shells myself with No 9 so I suppose they were similar to a light loaded 9mm garden gun. Again - very effective at relatively close range at running rats. A word of caution - always wear eye protection as they will ping back at you and try not to hit light bulbs for obvious reasons!

Crossover stocks were popular years ago but then fell out of fashion - and if you have ever shot one you would know why - they kick sideways bruising the check something awful!! This is one of our regular shooters with a fine modern crossover stock which is actually very comfortable to use - but as you can imagine - it isn't a cheap fix and you would want to be very certain it was the right route to go down before investing this kind of money.