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You know guys, there's one thing that makes me sad. And it's only indirectly related to this drama. I haven't been shooting for 20 years like all of you guys, but since we've started, I always felt that the "community" was a safe place to be -- we've all been vetted *by the police* after all, and I always assumed that loosing one's ticket because of lack of honesty was the worst thing that can happen to a shooter. *I* certainly know I felt **** when I picked up my first 3 points for speeding last year. "good character" and all. I felt I could leave my wallet on the table at the shooting ground and come back and find it there. I always felt I would never have to lock my car on a shooting ground. Even if the people I don't like on the forum are there. I assume honesty. And now, I can't. It's not just the topical guy we're discussing here, it's also the groupies -- it means there's a CROWD of people who are willing to cheat or accept it, or support it themselves, or try to manipulate, consciously, other people. So it's not just 'competition' is that is getting corrupted, it's pretty much everyone who shoots who is affected. Of course I'm not a dreamer, I'm not expecting everyone to be completely squeaky clean all the time, but really this discussion is about people who are mingling in *organised* cheating, repeatedly. Or at the worst, trying to facilitate it because if you look at it, if you help a cheater knowingly, *that makes you one*. That's why you get to prison for selling stolen goods, even if you weren't involved in the crime itself.

Have you considered RC3? I've been shooting these in my 2.75" gun and they definitely work, they do 34g #1s and #3s that will drop ducks an geese. They ARE a bit punchy, but well, they ARE 34g's! Also, last slab I bought wasn't *too* expensive all things considered, at £86 a slab from justcartridges. Cheaper than £57 per box :-)

For clays CompX 21 and 28 are hard to beat, for 2 1/2" chambered guns. If your gun is 2 3/4" then Eley Select are also an option, very soft; their 24g are nice to shoot. For game I recommend Hull Imperial Game, they have various weights like 26g, 28g and 30g at least, from 6 to 4 -- are very soft too (pretty much equivalent to CompX), and they are not stupidly expensive like most other game carts.

We do a bit of field archery around here -- mostly using an "American flatbow" which is kinda a mix between a recurve and a longbow, quite simple, but less temperamental than longbows. The "sights" go from "zero" in the case of longbows to multi-transformer-style mega gizmos for some target shooter or compounds. I do recommend field archery, it's kinda like a round of sporting clays, save than you have to go and pickup your pellets after shooting :-) :-) -- seriously, to start with you spend way more time looking for your arrows than actually shooting them :-) :-)

I think the attempt made by new posters to bring in that "punch" story into the thread might have been an attempt to make the forum liable for libel, good going everyone for defusing this one, but apparently, there is a lot of underhand craft going on to stiffen the discussion. I propose we all take care to stick to the topic; as it's been mentioned, NDAs or "agreements" are only bindings to the signatories, so it can be discussed and speculated upon by anyone/everyone.

I half imagine someone with a small laptop looking for coffee shop Wifi places to "contribute" to various discussions :-)

I think that faking profile/accounts and waxing lyrical about one/one's products under a false name/pretence is exactly as bad as 'fixing' one scores card; it's also cheating in my book. I think it just shows a lack of respect for *everyone* and taking them for idiots. It's a pattern, I think it's just disgusting. And pathetic.

Lesson I learned with NEC is BYOS -- Bring Your Own Sandwich! On Sat/Sun the queues are massive too.

Actually, it took me four signs to realise that the BSS 2020 sings meant British Shooting Show! Luckily it was in the same hall as before so I just followed my nose. Sounds silly, but quite a few people had the same experience as I did! Basically you realise what the sign means as soon as you arrive there :-) Anyway, for a friday it was quite manageable, met quite a few people, got quite a few bargains (nothing very shooty, but Loake shoes always are good if you find your size/style). There were a few more "mom and pop" stands as 2 years ago (we skipped last year). So overall not a huge amount of loot, but not a bad showing. Almost ALL the big shotgun names are missing -- apart from Caesar Guerini -- there's quite a few VIP about too, and the FieldSport Channel has a really nice stand, with everyone you know, some food, some goodies etc etc, really enjoyed that one.

Now I understand there was some stormy weather lately, so perhaps Krieghoffythingy had problems with his own internet connection; as we all know, Kriegohoffy-things are a MASS of shinny, powerful, metal, and they would therefore have much more issues during stormy weather, so I understand perfectly his lack of a response, as yet. I'm sure he'll come out as soon as the weather abate. In the meantime, i've been sharpening pencils and eraser skills to practice for the next competitions! And for full disclosure, I also think the BH videos about coaching clays are pretty much the best I've seen, and I have no 'bone' to chew with anyone. I'm just an average guy who also happen to have been in more internet arguments than most would believe, so I can see when there's 'fake news' and there's "blimey that's shockingly well documented" like the eraser-fixed scoring cards posts (unfortunately you need facebook lore to find these)

We were in the new forest for a while during the season, decided to buy a "battery powered washer" to clean the dog of any mud after the shooting day. That illness looks very very mean and there are no cures (last time I checked) so better safe than sorry!

I think some people might have been underestimating the sheer bloodymindeness of the Pigeon Watch collective. We became so good at being at each other throats most of the time on this forum that we could probably be World Champions in the discipline without even have to cheat! :-)

I wonder why we are even discussing all of these anyway. It's like discussing wether Bud Light is *in fact* the most refreshing beer in the world, because you know, that Well Known Guy said so on telly, and clearly he knows something about beer, he drinks a lot. Do you believe Lewis Hamilton when he tells you Pirelli Tyres are the best in the world? I don't know about you, but, I don't -- the guy doesn't 1) need the road tyres *I need* anyway and 2) it's not like he's impartial anyway. Case closed. Back to the cheating bits, that's much more exciting!

Careful guys, the trolls are only there to have this thread closed (one already asked for it, sitting on his 88 post history, that certainly gives him authority! :-)), remember the old internet adage, "don't feed the trolls". I personally read this with interest, I don't know the details, or the persons involved personally, but I do like hearing about the issues, especially since it seems there is a concerted effort to bury any discussion -- with methods that are quite elaborate I have to mention. (Edit: 16 posts! :-))

I have one of these, they come in various grade, and this one is the top of the range: semi pistol grip, single trigger, cocking indicator, barrel selector. Split forend like a Merkel, and dual "greener third byte" the action is really beefy. The engraving is exceptional too, and the guns handle very well. At that price, it's a steal!

Sure but I'd rather have it proofed anyway before I put some steel into it. I don't care if the gun blows up *during proofing* instead of in my hands.

Bless! Do have a sweet, dear boy.

Well I wanted 1/2 chokes anyway, which requires reproofing, so why not? There's plenty of metal, it's not like it's been used or abused.

No Standard Steel -- I don't see myself shooting HP in a gun that light :-)

Well so, it turns out it was not a #2, it is a #1 from 2004. Inspected it and it is *not* steel proof as it was assumed. Anyway, I did 100+ clays with it, and I shoot it very wheel. 30" barrels, good weight to it, good swing to it, recoil is 'in line' so very little muzzle flip. It's 1/4" too short, and a bit too low. So, I bought it, with adjustments as follow as part of the deal: Open to 1/2 1/2 and reproof for steel; raise the comb ~2mm, add a horn pad for 1/4", and also remove a bit of weight at the back (there are plugs where weight has been added) to move the center of gravity just in front of the pin (I like that).

Nope, never really looked closely at AYA SxS before -- funnily enough I always thought they were a bit expensive for a non-english gun, but from what I've seen the gun doesn't look super fancy like some others, but it does look pretty good to me.

Thank you mr keyboard warrior, I'm sure you can now feel perfectly proud of yourself in your little chair, since you've been Right on the Internet.

That forum is really toxic. And it's because of people like you. Well done.

Thanks everyone! Taking everything on board. Gun is £6k, and is nearly new (I'll check the serial and details later today). It's also seriously on the north side of what I would be paying for, thus my question. Personally I was looking at perhaps a Chapuis -- The reason I'm not going for an English this time is price for a newer gun really, I want it steel proof as I want to make it 'future proof' and also I want to shoot ducks with it; "english" modern guns are twice that money already (or much much much more of course). That AYA #2 has a nice weight to it to be fair, my other SxS are lovely on a walk up, but they are definitely lightweight, also, limited to 1oz

So guys, I've been hunting for an *all around* game gun for a while, and I've been shown a AYA #2 sidelock, self opening, round action, 30", 1/2+3/4, 14" 3/4 (a bit short for me) -- gun looks almost new. Steel proof marks (not sure of chamber size, but I'll assume 2"3/4) Straight hand stock -- nice wood, nothing spectacular... It is not a "deluxe" so has a nice case hardening colour -- but again nothing spectacular... How much would you spend on this? "New price" seems around £8K +++ depending on options (?!)