Terry2016

Why would you take it as not many? I would say i shoot rather a lot over multiple disciplines and none of the guns i have used show any issue with steel. Why does it have to be at game? last season i will have shot over 30 days on game. for many of this i shot eley vip steel biodegradable and zeniths. As i said i do not always use an under & over, i also use a S x S...

I like the new one, almost identical to the perazzi in looks.. and a lot cheaper. They seem to have a good rating too.. I think from the turkish makers ATA, KOFS etc these are at the top by a long shot... To add my son has had a .410 for 10 years... nice gun, still working..

is there any proof to say they are real ?? i can say from experience steel cases no issue? hence i do not believe the pictures to be real i have seen. likewise the gun shop video shows there is no damage caused by steel to even an old english gun. I have not heard of one person come forwards and say it has damaged my gun ? only stories. No of course the hard the metal the more chance of ricochet .. however without getting to technical the harder shot will also penetrate better ever wondered why a 22lr ricochet so much and yet they are fully lead? My point is a ricochet will also happen from lead. so a safe shot is a safe shot regardless of material.

Th number of shots vary so do the guns i use, i do not only shoot game. i have used steel on game, pigeons and wildfowl. Generally a browning over and under well as semi autos. I also use a pair of old english side by sides. as soon as i can get some of the new 2.5" eley biodegradable i will use the,

Wymberly, with all due respect. You asked a question i was then asked via Bobba, i have explained and given examples. The concern you raised is theatrical. how would it be policed ? you are out rabbit shooting and you shoot a pigeon.. or was you out to shoot pigeons and shot a rabbit ?? only you would know. The point is, the GL do not require you to do anything more than comply with their guidance. The situation you created will only create confusion to other members of this forum and is of no help. I thought I explained it very clearly.. People having different opinions if fine by me... however I give examples and facts around mine. The issue with all forms of text is that you cannot tell the exact tone in which it was typed or written. It was clear that i welcome different view points in my previous post when i said .. i would take the shot .. you would not. I feel you may be being over precautious. either way as always Best wishes Terry Agreed ..

No problem. Shot steel for years... no issues with any of my guns.. i can only speak from experience.. and of course the fact that all gunsmiths and makers are stating that its fine....

https://gamebore.com/uk/cartridge/game/12g-dark-storm-precision-steel-biowad Look at the video the wads are biodegradable... in 24hrs ...... https://player.vimeo.com/video/435748326 And I am with Motty the pictures are false made up by people who have no clue ... if you see my previous post on this topic one video is old english guns shooting steel cartridges without wads ... and guess what no barrel damage .......

The GWCT publish the evidence of bird lead ingestion, they support shooting. https://www.gwct.org.uk/policy/briefings/lead-ammunition/ Lead is toxic, oxidisation (rust) that happens to steel is not toxic. trees and wood ? is that relevant ?unless you are rough shooting you shouldn't be shooting in to trees! Political scoring, agreed . public perception agreed. for the benefit of wildlife and humans agreed. Sounds positive does it not ?

Its beyond me and its still going....

Heavier guns no... I know some wildflowers who use 20s and 28s... Eternal after market chokes some... however the majority do not. Plastic wads - now yes, however the biodegradable wad is a shotcup so is said to perform the same as plastic which is considered better than fibre. When they are available in suitable cartridge sizes for 3" and 3.5" then most would swap... Wildfowlers as a rule are very aware of plastic wads..and the issue they cause hence many clubs do litter pics. To add the new Gambore precision steel has the new "quad seal " with shot cup and apparently its a game changer... https://gamebore.com/uk/cartridge/game/12g-dark-storm-precision-steel-biowad

Jords, The Aya you are looking at will be nitro proof so it will shot steel no problem, check the chamber length and chokes. The ridiculous statement that steel does not kill goes against my grain, as a wildfowler with many friends who are wildfowlers i can say that steel kills fine! if its good enough for geese it will be good for any other quarry, in some places like denmark they shoot deer with steel from shotguns, ok they use a larger shot like SG's but it will kill. Do not be put off by the scaremongering- I use old english SxS also dated 1900.. and they do not have a problem shooting steel. Best Wishes Terry

Canon, it not what i am leading you to believe it is fact. Firstly - steel ricochet is not a concern... lead will also ricochet. so an unsafe shot is an unsafe shot. I have been shooting with steel for many years. as do many wildfowlers on this forum and trust me it kills adequately and at range. I think the purpose of the transition is to give the shooters who use these cartridges time to find ammunition that suits and for the manufacturers to develop further ammunition. It s better than an immediate ban isn't it... what would we all do then...

Agreed

lol you are funny, clearly don't like the truth. Jords, not a problem, there are heaps of information out there. most is in-fact opionions of old wives tales with nothing to back it up... Look at the comments above from Harkom .. no justification nothing to add or dispute what i explained to you. Likewise the videos i posted explain the very same as i did but from a gunsmith... welcome to the forum. it is a good place to learn more if you have any more questions please feel free to shout. Best Terry

Salopian you clearly struggle with facts hence I cannot understand your logic ! 1, the link is not a podcast it was a facebook live session - a podcast is audio 2, see point 1, facebook live is another form of communication not just to BASC members but to all who choose to watch it. 3, yes it really is. You clearly have no clue what you are taking about do you. Media is done in many ways not always from one place people like to see face to face discussions ... You really need to get your facts straight before you make your self look any sillier, I can now see why Conor ignores you .. Mods - can we get an ignore button ? 😂

Not sure what you mean..... ? carry on as previously ? do you mean leave the EU?

lol yes this is where we was doing it,,,, the cars were a pain in the A *** though as we would take them right through to the main.... including dining the trenches right through... oh the fun how i miss it.... not...:-)

Agreed, In my previous roles in construction there are huge programmes to remove these... Nowadays they are not installed. hence you see miles of upvc pipe being laid. 👍

Hi Jords, A couple of points, i hope to help you understand this further... Firstly there is no BAN.... i have commented against your posts below... "there has been rumours that BASC has had talks about signing a multi million pound deal with Waitrose to supply “lead free game meat” BASC are not a game dealer and have no access to game therefore cannot agree any deals with supermarkets to supply game "so why all of a sudden is it too bad for the environment now?. Because now there are suitable alternatives and there will be more coming on to the market, and if we do not do it we may be pushed and then where would be ? "figures show that nobody has ever suffered lead poisoning from shot game meat. There are many many many documents that show the negative impacts of lead on humans and animals, we are in the uk removing lead pipes from water inlets, paint and fuel "most Vintage side by side & O/U shotguns will be phased out completely, as getting the barrels proofed or nitro sleeved to withstand steel shot will outweigh the guns retail value. All guns that are nitro proof can shoot steel cartridges, they have even now brought out a biodegradable wad 2.5" cartridge to suit these guns. The price of these cartridges will reduce as more come to the market. currently the jocker version for clays is £50 a slab slightly more expensive for game Regarding the consultation with cartridge manufacturers - people will have their views.. one manufacturer released their knowledge of the transition a week before the statement.... how could they do that if they were unaware..... it isn't worth turning over past history however i understand the gun trade association were at meetings and they also represent the cartridge manufacturers ... Interesting enough Gambore said they could not do the transition in 10 years let alone 5 and it would take millions of pounds!! and yet they have released their new precision steel cartridges with bio wads in less than 6 months.. Have a look at these videos, From these 2 videos there is no issue with steel and in fact only positives... For humans, for animals, for perception and for the most important one the continuation of shooting...

Agreed. mamals covered by the countryside and wildlife act Birds by the Gl unless the above and in season the principle is the same. you do not have to intend to shoot one or the other. The GLs are written so that you as the user are have to understand them if you are shooting under them there is nothing to say that when you are out shooting rabbits you cannot also shoot pigeons under the GL.

Ah ok, not sure i get how those questions relate to this post ? 1, Didn't know it was, when i saw the link it worked? 2, Don't know and do not understand how that relates to this ? 3, it is? as i understand this centre is used to communicate with radio etc and make videos. Conor will be able to clarify I am sure

You do not need to intend to do anything . Out for a walk with your 243.... intent on shooting a fox... a muntjac comes along... same principle. Both completely legal

Hi Salopian i could only try what is the question ? Best Wishes Terry

What matters really is that you are confident in any shooting you do, and you understand under which legislation you are shooting. If you feel unsure in anyway...... don't take the shot.. 🙂

Hi Bobba, Maybe i did apologies, however if the question is "if you're out shooting squirrels / rabbits and a pigeon / crow flies by and you take a pot shot at it and drop it are you committing an offence?." No you are not committing an offence. You would be shooting that pigeon under GL36 for the protection of crops. You do not need to do anything to state you are going out to shoot pigeons. You do not need to take pr measures if you feel they would not work or are unrealistic. i would assume that tyou knew the ground you was shooting on and therefore shooting pigeons would be reducing cop damage. Its not really any different from shooting over stubble fields. Bw Terry