Fellside

Agreed. Right spot more important than decoy type - so buy the easiest to carry.

Hi Lloyd, I have recently been through this journey with my two sons. I opted for the Yildiz SPZ ME and it has been great. The 410 is quite a choke sensitive calibre. You don’t need much to make a big difference. The main advantage with a multi choke is that you can use open chokes which are very user friendly for kids. I find that the chokes on these Turkish 410s (inc the current W & S) are quite severe and from half choke and above the patterns start to blow rather than constrict. Fixed 410 chokes are often tight with iffy patterns - just my experience. It is understandable that some people may consider the 410 too difficult for children to use - they were once! Not now though. When I was a nipper, I only had 9 or 11 grams of 6 shot through a full choke. Very tricky. Now there are dedicated clay cartridges and multi chokes - a game changer. The lightness of a 410 for youngsters is important too. Their arms and shoulders get tired with bigger guns. Even with a 410 it’s important to give them a rest (sweetie break) every 10 shots or so. Hope that gives you some food for thought. P.S The 410 is great fun for dads also! Nice for decoying with 3” cart’s.

There is s helpful section on the BASC website “Taking Firearms Abroad”. It lists the countries commonly visited with firearms from the UK. Click on the Canada link. Tonnes of good info there as a starting point. There will be a process - it’s just finding it…..?! I think from this you will at least know who to approach for necessary advice at both ends.

I am not an expert on this by any means. However, taking good sound advice from your firearms dep’t has to be a good starting point. In basic pragmatic terms, I would have confidence that it is doable, as there is a UK legal system for taking a gun abroad and equally one for transferring guns in Canada. Good luck and have a great trip. P.S it’s interesting that your son is a keeper in Canada. I didn’t even realise driven game shooting was catered for over there. We live and learn.

Thanks for explaining Konor. Perhaps I should have read your previous post for context.

I would hate to see the end of driven shooting completely (which I think is what you’re suggesting). This would be a great shame for those who enjoy the exhilaration of connecting with a high and fast pheasant rocketing over them. I think all things in moderation - we just don’t need to shoot 500 in a day. About a tenth of that figure is enough to ensure all the guns have had some shooting and the birds are taken away by those involved. For me it’s all about achieving a healthy balance.

Well done. Yes agreed re stock doves. A lot in my area also - increasing numbers each year.

I think we are crediting Mr and Mrs general public with too much awareness of game shooting. Not many (not even most politicians or directors of DEFRA) will know the differences between big scale commercial shoots and the smaller farm syndicates - which are more accessible to the average wage earner. I think the main challenge we face is in convincing the public, that there is a net conservation gain via shooting. Even the RSPB have reluctantly admitted this recently, but for some reason this has not been fully capitalised by the orgs in PR term - in needs to be. We are all acutely aware of the habitat preservation and biodiversity gains etc, but the average person in the street believes these can only be gained via designated nature reserves…..?! In short, shooting’s PR needs to emphasise that: a) the great majority of people who shoot are ordinary working folk - not titled estate owners. b) the biodiversity benefits from game habitat management are enormous. Only when these aspects of perceived class-war and conservation are addressed will we make any significant gains.

In all honesty, with a decent team on the job I’ve seen some cracking little farm shoots. Often the syndicate members become very enthusiastic part time keepers so to speak. I think it can go horribly wrong if the syndicate aren’t very motivated (or very well lead) - and it’s left to a couple of overworked volunteers to cary the weight of it all. I’ve seen that too many times.

Yes a good thought. However I still think small farm syndicates (circa 500 poults) are hugely important for biodiversity. We do need those as well. Often they form a wildlife oasis surrounded by an intensively farmed ‘green desert’. Personally, I really enjoy smaller days, where there is the pressure (and thrill) of making the shot count, because there isn’t a constant stream of pheasants. I don’t want to knock the big shoots, as they are an important part of our rural economy, but scaling down a little might be an idea. Reducing live quarry to the status of many targets - rather like clays - seems somehow unattractive. Ramble over.

😆😂 While the car was still moving me thinks.

I’ve just bought a thousand red cartridges - they look really nice!

Now there’s an idea. The grant should be embraced as part of the new agri-environmental movement, managed and administered by DEFRA. The ‘Grey Partridge Scheme’.

Very good 👍

It is an interesting read - and thank you. My take on this piece. Some of the author’s assertions may (may!?) be true, however they are poorly evidenced as the list of references demonstrates. What we need is very robust (non biased) review of clean evidence by an external body. This task could / should have been undertaken by the HSE. Unfortunately they have proven to be biased and incapable of evaluating the science. In the ideal world, no authority should proceed to impose lead shot restrictions in the absence of any good contemporary science - free from biased influence.

Well……. in the ideal world, which we don’t live in, there would exist an inexpensive type of steel pellet alloyed with another heavier metal….. oh and a fully protecting bio wad. Could someone develop this please? By next Sunday would be fine as I plan to be shooting then. Cheers!

I think the key danger of lead shot when ingested as grit - from the papers I have read - is that it has the potential to cause non lethal harm. One example is the limiting of breeding success. It is unlikely that steel will cause similar. The other important consideration is the rapid rusting and degradation of steel shot, i.e it doesn’t hang around for long. Don’t misunderstand my post however. This does not mean that I support any restrictions. Like most I will continue using lead where it is unlikely to be harmful. It’s just worth thinking about if there are grey partridges around, as they seem to be the most vulnerable non-wildfowl species. In real terms, for most other species, habitat quality (or the lack of it) appears to remain the key population determinant. P.S Plastic wads, that’s an entirely different matter. Don’t get me started re plastic litter (?!). I’ve been using fibre for years for everything including clays.

In terms of what is currently being proposed - yes. Although, it’s easy enough to use fibre for both re lead shot.

Yes I see what you mean - perhaps not a major issue in Ireland.

Yes - post war agricultural intensification is the well known cause of grey partridge decline. This has been extensively documented. DDT played its part also. In fact, this period marked the beginning for the decline of many common farmland bird species. However, I think it is important to acknowledge, from recent research, that lead shot litter could play an important part in limiting the breeding success of remaining coveys. This isn’t to say it’s the only factor, but contributory. The lead poisoning does not have to be lethal to have an important adverse effect. Just to be clear I do not (DO NOT) support any restrictions on lead shot. I might however think again if I was lucky enough to have a few coveys around. I think it should be a choice. In some circumstances perhaps steel may be appropriate.

Yes for most shooting this is so true.

All very sound advice. (Although…. how can you knock coloured chokes? They do help you hit more….. don’t they….? 😀)

I have done a quick scan of the GWCT references for the article you linked. While I haven’t had time to source and read each paper, there does appear to be at least some consensus on the impacts for grey partridge and raptors eating shot birds. I would expect some of those scholarly articles to originate from bias sources - however not all. On this basis, yes I would say it’s good enough. Thanks for the info.

If you can recognise a gun which fits YOU well - then you are off to a good start. After gun fit (crucial!), the more ‘nice to have’ aspects come in to view, such as handling dynamics, multichoke barrels, pleasant non distracting trigger pulls, a decent recoil pad etc… Personally (and everyone will have their preferences) I find the 30” Citori to be a bit of a fence post in terms of ‘feel’. The more contemporary sporters by Browning and Beretta tend to have much nicer balance - closer to neutral in 30”. Only you will know what fits and feels right for you out of the range of choices. All the nonsense about Browning being lower on the comb than Beretta is no longer relevant - as there are so many different models and stock dimensions for both these days. Find one that fits and feels right. Have a look at Miroku also - essentially a Browning and Bomb proof. Welcome to Pigeon Watch by the way - and good look!

Thanks for the info. I would suggest the great bulk of studies are about wetlands/wildfowl. I do acknowledge that they are vulnerable. I think ‘clean’ evidence re direct impacts on terrestrial fauna is still scant. There does appear however, to be a reasonable case for secondary impacts re birds of prey ingesting lead from wounded birds or carrion containing lead pellets.