Fellside

Hi Conor, Thank you for this clarification……and patience throughout a noisy discussion….! I don’t want to open a whole new can of worms, however the so called evidence for terrestrial impacts of lead shot upon avian and non avian fauna was rather limited the last time I looked (2023) and was produced/influenced by mainly biased anti shooting groups. Has anything changed in this regard?

The ‘natural capital’ and benefits to the ‘public good’ re biodiversity are well know to many of us. However this needs to be widely publicised in PR terms to Mr and Mrs general public - especially in light of the RSPB statement re net wildlife benefits of farm shoots! On a separate note thanks for sharing stockybasher - and well done to BASC so far. Needs further PR work though.

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Yes I have those - impressed. Bought too long ago to remember (10 years…?), still going strong.

I agree, that taking guns away from those genuine morons is a good thing - how can’t it be? However, opening the flood gates to malicious complaints, by those who seek to use the police force as a rolling pin against their partner, is an entirely different ball game. I know of a couple of cases local to me where aggrieved wives, in the process of divorce, have attempted (wrongly) to ruin their estranged husbands future in shooting. Both cases were resolved in favour of the gun owner, but not without great aggravation and stress to all concerned.

Good point. Get a recommendation - one good one is all you need.

Any half decent joiner in the local area. Someone who can fit windows and doors in to houses, make and fit new stairs etc - can fit a gun a gun cabinet very easily. I know DIY isn’t your thing, so let me just say it’s a very straightforward job. They will probably just pop in for half an hour - do it on their way home for cash. Oh and welcome to Pigeon Watch by the way.

I got a spare Brattonsound set made at Timpsons. The ones above in pic look very different and more specialised. If you can order the blanks - happy days. Better than not being able to access your cabinet in worst case scenario. I think once you have the blanks, most high street key people could copy them.

Is that what everyone keeps telling you….?

My two penneth. Of the budget Turkish small bores, I like Yildiz more than the rest. They cost a little more, but appear better made. I bought a used 410 about 3 years ago. It had done some work before I bought it and I’ve put about 4,000 cart’s through it. Still going strong. Very impressed with its quality.

Strange….?!

Yes - crack on. Use a Larson trap if you can. No gun noise and highly effective. Not as satisfying as seeing them tumble out of a tree I must admit.

Years ago somebody threw their empty cart’s on the pub fire after a driven day. Unfortunately there was a live unfired cartridge in the heap. The primer went off with a crack and hit someone’s leg as they stood by the fire. Not a major injury, as it was only slightly embedded in their leg, but it could have been worse if it had found someone’s eye. Just a thought. If you do burn them put some goggles on, or make sure the fire is in a metal drum.

" ya still need to put right address on them " like it 😁. Yes Express have gone off the boil here also. You can still buy them if you try, but they’ve lost a lot of market share. Every area is different, but on my stamping ground the Italian cart’s have a big presence now. I tend to buy Italian fibre 7 1/2 as they are UK 7s and work great for the both clays and decoying.

Don’t honestly know the price as they were a freebie to try - but you’re probably right re price. I don’t know much about the Fiocchi / Express thing - as it was a shooting ground that wanted me to try them. They broke clays like anything else. As I said earlier, pleasantly surprised.

👍 Interesting. The ones I trialed were put together by Lyalvale Express. Fairly impressed. As I say, don’t know if they’ll make it as a product line - we’ll have to see.

There’s no doubt that bigger pellets break the extreme clays better. Hence the popularity of 7s and even 6 1/2 for FITASC. Although using a ‘confidence’ cartridge of whatever type certainly helps. I was given a trial / prototype cart’ recently to test - 21 gram 6 1/2. The idea apparently being that you only need to strike the clay with one pellet to break it and zilch recoil. I tried them on an extreme compact sporting layout and have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. Don’t know if they’ll make it in to the shops or not - but my feedback was very positive.

I don’t think there is a significant difference between cheap / expensive clay cartridges in clay breaking terms. This is simply because they contain a huge number of pellets - e.g 450 size 8 in a 28 gram cart’. Even if the lead is soft and the velocity too snappy, average clays are still broken with poor patterns. With game or pigeon cart’s the quality difference is more telling, as the shot count is far less. With only about 290 pellets in a 30 gram 6, there is more chance of a poor pattern wounding or even not touching the bird. I have come across some real stinkers in budget pigeon cart’s over the years (poor in the field and on the pattern plate) so now use good quality game cart’s for all live quarry. I’ve gone off piste a little in referencing game cart’s, so for what it’s worth, my favourite clay cart’ is Fiocchi Fblu in 24 gram. I just like how smooth it is - and not a crazy price. Gamebore Evo is a close second. Weather their velocity is 1250 fps or 1350 fps I honestly don’t know, or mind, as the difference in all practical terms is irrelevant.

Sounds like you know your own gun fitting requirements - as we all do eventually. Comb raisers are OK and there are plenty of choices, but if you really like the gun then having an adjustable comb is the ultimate solution. If carried out to a high standard by a good smith, it will not negatively affect the value either.

Lots of good insights above. However, one of the key reasons why people often struggle with a 410 has little to do with ballistics, but gun weight. They have all of their timings and muscle memory etc typically tuned to a 7 1/2 lb 12 bore O/U - then pick up a 5lb 410 which ‘rushes to a stop’ all too easily. It takes a while to become familiar with this little garden cane, but when our brain ‘recalibrates’ so to speak, the 410 can become a magic wand and is a great joy to shoot. My advice is to buy one that fits (properly) and just enjoy getting used to it. Re chokes and cart’s, I know everyone has their favourite formula, but here’s mine for what it’s worth: Eley Trap 14 gram 7 1/2 for clays Hull High Pheasant 18 gram 6 for pigeons and driven. Both through cylinder and quarter. I find the unchoked barrel is efficient from about 15 to 25 yards and the choked barrel out to about 35 yards. Hope that helps.

I shot at a sporting ground every Sunday for years. It was once in the countryside far from the madding crowd. No longer. It is now half surrounded by housing estates. One of them has back gardens literally overlooking the ground. The club receives complaints regularly and so do the police, but the club was there first so no complaints have ever been a problem. The club is still going strong. This one in Cumbria just needs to stand firm.

A tip given to me by an electrical engineer: use silicone tubing cut to 1” lengths to insulate the terminals, as it stays put. Works very well. The silly little plastic terminal covers (as supplied) just go AWOL in no time.

Great!

This is very true. And……. of course in bonny Scotland you can shoot them with lead shot over land.

Excellent work Conor. Clearly there are several important economic benefits. However, the biggest gain has always been difficult to express in monetary terms, and that is gains to ‘public goods’ via the preservation and enhancement of key habitats. This appears to have relevance which is more emotional than monetary. (I must apologise for not having read the assessment - time pressures etc. perhaps net gain to public goods gets a mention…..?)