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Fellside

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Posts posted by Fellside

  1. On 25/01/2024 at 21:22, Conor O'Gorman said:

    The government is consulting on its approach to a global convention on safeguarding cultural heritage, and falconry is already recognised, so what about a case for shooting?

    https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/isnt-shooting-part-of-our-living-heritage-147131/

     

    Yes - good angle. Wildfowling is certainly a strong historical aspect of our cultural heritage. I’m not sure about driven shooting. It is only in recent decades that this has become more available to working folk - via the rise in popularity of shooting syndicates. Walked up / rough shooting may be..?

    However, our inherited wealth of woodland (created and/or preserved as pheasant coverts) is a strong heritage aspect. There you are, my two penneth for what it’s worth. 

  2. 17 hours ago, Scully said:

    I’m itching to get another .410, but do I buy a cheapish one now with all the uncertainty surrounding availability of small bore steel, or wait until that is resolved and .410 prices go daft? 🙂

    The Yildiz 410s are very good value - therefore low financial risk. I have a youth version. Not that I’m claiming to be youthful (?!) - my young sons and their friends use it mainly. I have had a few ‘dad’s indulgence’ outings with it on my own - decoying pigeons and an occasional driven day. Great sport! I bought it second hand and it was £400. If it was purely a gun for me, I would have the adult fitting stock with 28” barrels. I think you’ll get your money’s worth whatever happens re the lead situation. 

    P.S If you get one - come back to me and ask about cart’s. I’ve tried a wide variety. Some are awful - others brilliant. 

  3. 5 minutes ago, oowee said:

    All sounds good for the shooting its a shame that the poor diet being encouraged is likely to lead to health conditions later. 🤣

    Ha ha 😂No it’s not an issue as I eat half of their sweets. 

  4. 2 hours ago, Scully said:

    Because we cannot use similar ammunition; they are allowed to use full strength beer, we are only allowed shandy…..for want of a comparison. 

    Yes exactly! I made this point in a different thread recently - i.e CIP and SAMMI need to take their foot off the brake re steel velocity limits. 

    As a further point, if we are permitted to use higher velocities (per USA), semi autos will become extremely popular for taming the recoil…..!

  5. If the OP gives his grandson no more than 3 shots in succession, rest, sweets, then another 3 shots etc, etc, it should work. Very light cart’s and easy clays. Keep it all positive and fun. Show him the grown ups shooting at clays around the shooting ground, back to the club house for a bacon butty and a hot chocolate. Give him the empty shell to take home from the first clay he hits - they love that! And never underestimate how much they like pressing the button to make clays whizz through the air for someone else to shoot. Its normal for us but hugely novel for them. So basically a whole positive experience - don’t overdo the shooting to make his arms tired. If he’s keen he’ll want to go again….and they usually are keen. 
     

     

  6. 5 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

    hello, a Yildiz 410 with a junior stock ?? This one should have a safety catch which i think so important for Youngsters, 

    This is sound advice. A 26” Yildiz 410 is a great starter gun.  Anything bigger in gauge or barrel length tends to weigh too heavy on their arms and shoulders - gravity pulls the gun down. With the most open chokes possible and Eley 410 ‘Trap’ 14 gram 7 1/2, the youngsters can really star burst clays. Important to have easier beginner type clays also - incoming ones that hang in the air for a second. Just get them hitting and smiling to start. 

    P.S I have the above gun which has been hammered endlessly by many youngsters (and dads) and it’s still going strong. 

  7. 47 minutes ago, flippermaj said:

    Do you know where the speed is measured at?  Muzzle or 3 foot from.  I ask as on Gamebores website they are advertising speeds of 1400 for standard steel?  Naughty them!
     

    Agreed the yanks cartridge suppliers and marketeers seem very keen pushing the hi velocity stuff.   But plenty of research on internet to show the fallacy of this as at 40 yards it has slowed down to only a little above a 1400/1350 speed cart.

    look up Surviving Duck Season on YouTube, he has some interesting stuff"……………and prefers to shoot bismuth!

    Thanks for that - will have a look. I am trying to understand the merits (or challenges) re steel - in preparation for likely future changes. 

  8. 8 hours ago, flippermaj said:

    I think CIP has a max velocity of 1430 fps.   The video talks of using cartridges in the 1330 to 1360 fps range.   It is therefore possible for manufacturers to produce such cartridges and I believe many current steel factory loads run at these speeds.   So while the SAMMI regs may be more beneficial the CIP regs we are stuck with don't preclude the production of cartridges as used in the video.

    Thanks for pointing out the velocities used in the video. To be perfectly honest I didn't note the velocities and just presumed they were using the usual American high velocity stuff.....?! I will put myself on the naughty step for not paying attention in class 🙂. From what I have read recently, most Americans appear to be favouring pretty fast steel loads these days - of a greater velocity than we can stretch to. Higher velocities appear to be key for range and penetration. If we had more regulatory freedom, I think our market would move in a similar direction. We can only hope.

  9. 11 minutes ago, Bernard said:

    I suspect this is the fault of UK Cartridge manufacturers, CiP limitations and a failure to look at the utter encyclopedia of evidence produced in the states as they have added more and more lead shot restrictions over the last 40+ years. Shot size is important and multiple studies showed this.

     

    Large scale US FWS study with blind loaded cartridges, volunteer hunters and paid observers, using half lead and half steel (steel was appropriately loaded based on their studies) showed no statistical difference in the post shot reaction with shots to 60+ yards.  I’ll dig out the link.

    He sumarises the various double blind studies, on Geese, Ducks, turkeys, pheasants, quail and dove here. Not opinion. Fact.


    These studies were very well designed and funded by the US government through their conservation act. Can’t think what it’s called now, MacArthur or something.

    https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/steel-shot-lethality-testing/

    Thanks for that Bernard. There has been much work on this in the USA. Unfortunately however, as noted above, we just don’t have the permitted velocities per USA. When (or if) our regulators permit greater steel shot velocity, we could see similar results to the American study examples. 

    As a side note, if we ever get similar velocities in the UK, semi-autos will become as mainstream as they are stateside. This will be in no small part due to recoil from 32 gram loads being propelled at 1500 fps and more…!

  10. Well….. as a fellow woodcock addict, I couldn’t agree more. A truly enigmatic and mysterious quarry. Having to be constantly ready and reading the dog’s body language for a clue is all part of it. If you take your eye off the ball for a second - isn’t that just when they flush and the chance has gone before you even get the gun up. Marvellous challenge though!

  11. I have found pigeons in this condition a few times over decades. I don’t think it is bird flu. If they were bird flu cases, with partial paralysis, and being flightless, they wouldn’t have been up in a tree. Just my two penneth. 

  12. Hi everycal,

    Sorry I don’t have the stock you need, but hope the following info helps. 

    From experience an 8 year old would definitely need a 410 - as at that age any more gun really pulls their arms down. A Yildiz youth 410 multichoke is a cracking little gun, 26” barrels set up with the most open chokes possible. BTW you’d be amazed at what these little guns can do - the modern cartridge developments help. Great that your boy is interested!

  13. 5 hours ago, Red696 said:

    @fellside the shareholders quip is reference to an old tv advert, it is meant to be seen as a reference to the payrolled at BASC.

    No slight at you with my mention of volunteers, as others have also brought up the subject of volunteering.  

    My opinions of BASC aren’t isolated but also don’t match those of others, it doesn’t mean mine aren’t valid though.  At best BASC come across as an expensive insurance provider, at worst they come across as a VERY expensive insurance provider.

    Gun ownership and therefore shooting sport is under threat from increased legislation not X’boxes as has been posted.  I’ve introduced a few teenagers to shooting, as they all had an obsession with COD, all but one stuck to shooting and dropped the gaming.  
     

    I see - thank you for explaining Red696. Yes increased legislation is certainly a growing threat. However, most sports are significantly threatened by computer games also. At least this is what I’m told by various sports coaches. A double whammy you might say. I know one thing for sure though (as Konor notes), once people are given a chance to access shooting, they are invariably enthusiastic to return. Overcoming the perceived (or actual) barriers is key. 

  14. 49 minutes ago, Red696 said:

    Others getting jolly over the volunteering days, what use will it be teaching these kids if the sports are being phased out with voluntary bans.

    I think you must be referring to me here Red696. You may well be hacked off with a certain lead issue - but who on earth said the sport is being phased out for future generations? Shooting (and many other outdoor pursuits) is more under threat from screen based games than your tangential doom prophecy. Hope you “get jolly over some volunteering days” as you put it. You may develop a more informed stance if you do. 

  15. 40 minutes ago, Red696 said:

    the payroll sit back and cash in on the free labour

    You wouldn’t be seeing it that way if you witnessed what it takes to organise, safety assess, run and pay for a youth coaching event. Volunteering isn’t ‘free labour’, it’s putting your shoulder to the wheel and making a difference. You would find it difficult to achieve it off your own bat - not least of all due to the cost. BASC and/or other shooting org’s therefore become key. 

    BTW Who are these shareholders (champagne quaffing or otherwise)?

  16. 3 hours ago, Cawdor118 said:

    The problem is, where I got them from won't want 249 cartridges back 🤦‍♂️

    I have emailed Gamebore, I will wait and see what they say. 

    Yes you’re right - they won’t. I had presumed you’d bought a thousand. I’ve been in your situation before re discovering disappointing cart’s - and returned nearly 1,000. Long story, but they used a bad batch of powder - blooped and fizzed. They weren’t Gamebore. The ‘Italian jobs’ are great (Fiocchi FBlue) as mentioned. 

  17. 40 minutes ago, Red696 said:

    Call me cycnical…. 1700 prospective customers for what outlay?  How many on the payroll turn up to set up & carry out the coaching? vs how many on the payroll ‘selling’ membership.
     

    And there is a lot more to shooting than ‘clays’ ( a sport I’ve recently taken up 😁 ), as a life long Airgunner BASC has done diddly other than class Airgunners as 2nd class to the posh Game shooting fraternity.

    BASC take plenty, give little, and blow smoke.

    Quite clearly BASC weren’t selling membership to first time Scout clay shooters - and yes BASC pay rolled employees were strongly present. They organise and run the days - many of which are on weekends. 

    I can detect that you are new to clays and possibly shotgunning also. Welcome to the world of clay shooting BTW. It’s a great learning journey and I hope you are enjoying it. RE air gunning, BASC have done a great deal to support this area of our sport also. I may be a shot gunner, but I’ve never forgotten my air rifle routes. I still use a couple of air rifles too - which I share with my children. Wouldn’t part with my air rifles.

    With respect Red696 you may not be that familiar with BASC’s work. I can understand to a certain extent the lead debate angle, but you may be too willing to assume that BASC haven’t made a lot of great gains. How about volunteering to help their staff put on a kids clay shooting event? Most children love clay (and often game) shooting, but find access just about impossible. They, and more often their parents, often just don’t know where to start. 

    1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

    Used to run young shot days with James Green from BASC and we did clays, pheasant drive, walk round the shoot, prep a bird, then a duck flight. From smashing a clay to dropping a pheasant and/or a duck the kids loved it.... 

    marvellous 👍

  18. 2 minutes ago, Red696 said:

    The first question that keeps forming in my head, is, why do people still pay money to BASC?

    I quit sending them money years ago, they are nothing more than a business, and a business that rips off it’s own customers.  They do not lobby for the benefit of ALL, in fact they don’t seem to even lobby for the benefit of anyone but themselves.

    As an aside from the lead debate - I would respectfully disagree re BASC ripping off its customers. You only have to get involved with the youth coaching side and you will see massive gains, almost entirely funded by BASC. When you witness a child grinning from ear to ear after smashing their first clay……..?! Imagine this scene playing out thousands of times a year up and down the country, and you may have an idea of how big a program this is. For example, at last year’s Scout jamboree, they coached over 1,700 children in a week! That was only one event out of many. 

    I can understand disgruntlement re the lead issue (although decency and respect seem to be lacking at times), however I don’t see a great deal ripping off to be fair. 

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