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I'm not so knowledgeable on shotguns and I suppose smooth bores maybe a little different. I just have a 20 bore and im a complete novice at shotguns TBH Although I had some pretty bad experiences with Eley fourten namely it kept bouncing of things and hitting me unfortunately, I don't bounce lead very well and had numerous welts on my shins. Im predominantly, a target shooter. For me cheap 22 ammo just isn't worth the risk and often is wildly inconsistent, although I no longer have a Ruger 10/22 (thankfully) it became ammo fussy after 15 years and it gave me an insight into poor quality ammo, CCI for instance uses some kind of coal for propellant which would foul the action and coke up the bore. Basically any american ammo is junk Winchester hollow points are shockingly inaccurate and no way would i ever consider hunting with them at more than 20 yards. Remington Thunderturds "pop, pop, bang, phut". Winchester HP "phut, pop, pop, crack" Federal Don't go there the heads look sandcast RWS Geko = See above Now I only use SK Standard plus, or Tennex in my Target rifle, as I want to be 100% sure that its me, not the ammo that misses. SK is reasonably priced The days of good and cheap are rapidly dissapearing. Luckily I was gifted around 20 tins of Match Kugeln in .177 so my airgun ammo is sorted

I would look at getting a bore scope, My suspicion is, ammo, scope, crown, mounts. Teslong make a USB bore scope available on amazon for £46 and is worth every penny (although on second thoughts maybe not, as you will be horrified at the state of some of the bores.) Also a Torque driver as the stock screw tightness can really effect accuracy in a big way. I settled on 18 nm front and rear and the groups shrank. Its like a wierd form of zeroing but with a torque driver. Again Amazon for Laser tools bicycle torque driver for 30 squids. HMR has a mixed reputation for accuracy, there are numerous reports from the states with some pretty scary results and even a couple of detonations there have been many bad batches which are finding ther way over here. Added to that, some of the more recent CZ's have quality control issues. Namely rough bores and chambers and poorly finished crowns. I had 2 452's that couldn't shoot the floor if i tried but i got very lucky with my 455 American, with a poor crown but for some reason it shoots like a charm, although I'm going to lap the muzzle with a gunsmiths tool just because its been niggling me. MTC make some good scopes but they have a knack of losing zero after a few years. I have had two and my club members have sent a couple back as they lost zero, the repeatability of the turrets can be hit and miss too. I gave up on MTC a few years ago, I only use Nikon due to the large amount of fake leupolds being sold by "unsuspecting" gun shops. Meopta, Shimdt, and Nikon are the only scopes worth bothering with. I know a few guys with March 50x scopes and to be frank it feels like the emperors new clothes especially on a Ruger 10/22 Personally I would invest in a Nikon and be 100% sure get some decent ring, such as B Square steel rimfire rings Hope this helps!

Yes I couldn't agree more, Buying cheap ammo whether pellets, Rimfire ammo, or shotgun shells is indeed a false economy. By doing so you are only encouraging them to make more!

Hi all just thought i'd introduce myself, I'm a Brit but have mixed heritage as my parents are from Finland. I still regularly return to visit my myriad of relatives and also to do some "proper shooting" last time I was there I shot practical pistol and some full auto Sako assault rifles! I was introduced to guns at the age of 8 when my grandpa and Uncle took me shooting with a 12 bore Miroku we had a lot of land in Finland and shooting in your back garden was seen as normal. We shot skittles and some hand thrown clays and when asked if there was anything else I wanted to shoot. Well, I let my Action man have it, we never found anything other than some ripped miniature clothes. Which was a bit surprising Upon returning home to Blighty I pestered my mum to get me an air pistol and like so many my first gun was a Gat. Since then many hundreds of airguns,shotguns and rifles have passed through my hands.As soon as i was old enough I was going to join a gun club. Many years passed and like so mnay i was put off getting "real guns" by the thought of Police inspections and owning my own property. Fast forward 15 years and I had my own place a Mrs and thankfully no kids! So I joined a local club and as the years progressed I became an RO then committee member and eventually the club secretary for a rifle and pistol club.(which sadly closed a around 5 years ago due to land grabbing developers who wanted to build trendy flats on our range. Unfortunately the governing body had neglected to pay our rent for many years, unbeknownst to us, even though part of our range fees and renewals included rent for the range. But never the less, I still shoot, although I gave up on centrefire target rifles as the reloading, cleaning and general faffing around made it feel more like work than a hobby, reloading the club ammo on top of this made me somewhat glad when the club finally folded. It can be a lonely place being the "boss" and 90% of members where very helpful but the 10% treated the place as if they where paying guests, never helped on range clearance days, they often left empties lying around and old ammo boxes. I since joined a club near London and switched to rimfire, shotgun and airguns. and I am enjoying shooting more than ever. Often when joining a club its all to easy to be swayed by the crowd and bamboozled into buying guns you don't really want or like, I recently sold my Ruger 10/22 as alloys, plastics and massive scopes just feel wrong. somewhere i lost my way and forgot how nice walnut and steel can be. I felt for some time that I didn't quite fit in on the Gallery circuit anyway, An im now focusing on smallbore Im a member of Bisley NRA and shoot comp occasionally, mainly Running boar and Mini Mcqueens so I may even know some of you chaps! I'm no expert but i can give advice on rifles shotguns and spring airguns if anyone asks I've been shooting for 40 years! I also worked for Holts at one time but if truth be told I'm no expert on values, i took me a year working there before i knew what a sidelock or boxlock is! Forgive my spelling as im quite dyslexic and without spell check it would look like word soup. Disco!

I would train them to shoot back! .177 or .22 pah Obviously with .25 as it has more of a slap and less penetration, also the welts would be larger!

To be honest 90% of so called "gunsmiths" in England are bodgers, or glorified mechanics, who work at a glacial speed. Not to mention all the hassles with RFD transfers, fees and waiting weeks or sometimes months for simple work like re threading or crowning. If you find a good gunsmith stick to him/her , IMHO The only decent smith I have found in England is Norman Clarke of Rugby. This is why whenever possible I prefer to research first and whenever possible, carry out my own repairs (if I have the skills and capabilities to do so myself.) I have a bore scope and can examine crowns and other small bits and I'm more often horrified by what these so call smiths do to guns. I recently bought a "muzzle lapping tool" to re-crown one of my rimfire rifles, as I'm not going through this rigmarole and faffing about. The tool itself only cost £17 and achieved much better than the crowning jobs I paid for so time, much faffing and money was saved all round.

I used to work for Holts at one time and to be honest its a complete lottery. I would never buy a gun from them unseen, I got burned so many times and i worked for them! But as Holts have hundreds, if not thousands of guns to value and assess, often they simply don't have the time to check every single item. Unless you can physically handle and look at it I would be very cautious, the sealed bids are a complete gamble, Nicky is a lovely chap but buyer beware!