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  1. Doesn't matter whether loaded with lead or steel - HP proofing just means that the gun has survived a firing of a cartridge that achieves (on average) a maximum pressure of 1320 bar. Pressure can be increased dramatically just by removing the amount of compressible filler. Powder could be changed to one that's faster burning etc. Most of the average 2.75 inch lead shell is made up of compressible material (think the fibre wad or the crush section of a plaswad), so there's plenty of scope to increase powder/shot whilst staying within the case length requirements.
  2. I've said this in another thread but will repeat here. I spoke to a BASC representative at an evening event and asked them what prompted BASC to announce, apropo of nothing, that they wanted the entire industry to move away from lead. I was told that the primary pressure was that Europe takes most of our game meat, and that they don't want it containing lead. When I asked why BASC wasn't content to simply let the market take care of it i.e. Europe doesn't want lead shot game, so the game shoots impose their own steel shot rules or sell the game elsewhere, they stated that many of the smaller commercial shoots would go out of business if left to their own devices. In other words, BASC has prioritised the commercial driven shoots and their...more affluent clientele, and have shafted everyone else (again). All of the arguments that BASC have given regarding the toxicity and the environmental damage caused by lead (which may well be true), played little to no part in the decision to move away from lead, and are simply being used to retroactively justify their actions. @Conor O'Gorman- You know, Conor, BASC can't have it both ways. You can't publicly announce that lead is toxic, that steel is just as good, then oppose measures to ban all forms of lead ammunition. You've completely removed all grounds by which to argue against a legislative lead ban by doing so.
  3. I've used those cartridges - they scored the chamber and forcing cones in my gun. That paper wad, in my opinion, is simply not fit for purpose.
  4. If you cut open a fibre wad cartridge you'll likely find a thin layer of plastic on both sides to stop the shot embedding itself into the wad upon firing. I believe that fibre wads are also frequently impregnated with bitumen, and bitumen is absolutely full of carcinogens. These will be released into the surrounding environment as the wad breaks down. In my opinion, fibres are no better than plastic wads. At least plastic wads are more visible than fibres, and thus are more easily recoverable after a day's shooting.
  5. I think the Fblack shot contains a higher proportion of antimony than the TT line.
  6. Not sure of the legality of it - but you'd need to use non-lead ammo which is realistically going to limit you to the larger calibres. And once you've taken one shot the rest will fly off so rifles may not be as effective in thinning their numbers significantly. Might be worth reconsidering whether you could get a few guys with shotguns down there instead, shoot as many on the floor as possible and then keep shooting as they're taking off? I imagine safety will be much less of a concern too.
  7. I had an interesting chat with a BASC spokesperson recently. They stated that BASC's push to move away from lead was, in large part, driven by the continent's reluctance to eat game containing lead shot, and they were concerned as to the impact this would have on commercial game shoots that sell a lot of birds for consumption in Europe. When asked why they weren't content to just let market forces take over in encouraging shoots to move away from lead, they stated that some of the shoots would have gone under by that point if it was left as a voluntary choice. As I had suspected, it quickly became clear over the course of the conversation that all the environmental and health effects of lead shot were not, in fact, the primary driver behind the switch, but rather just convenient excuses to retroactively justify their decision. Quite disappointing, but hardly surprising behaviour from BASC.
  8. I've had quotes for over 100 pounds just to send 20 cartridges from a couple of companies. It's madness. I believe TNT used to deliver assembled cartridges back in the day but not anymore.
  9. I've spoken a fair bit to Clay & Game about load data and load testing; they are, to say the least, unhelpful. I do actually have some 10 bore fibre cups but they look so bloody lopsided - half of the wad always seems to have significantly thicker walls than the other. I assume you've had no issues with pinholing/barrel scoring?
  10. Hello all Does anyone know of any couriers/delivery services that will transport assembled shotgun cartridges? I'd like to send some for testing and would prefer to avoid a trip to Birmingham to deliver them in person. Thanks
  11. What velocity are you getting with that load, out of interest?
  12. Whilst the police will always ask you why you want a shotgun for an SGC, it's not actually a requirement on your part to demonstrate good reason for owning one, as with an FAC
  13. I'm not suggesting that you're not being truthful, but the ultimate thrust of my original argument is that even with lead, the smaller bores tend to have less effective range simply because the pattern falls apart sooner. With having to use larger shot sizes of steel, this problem is only made worse. As for 50 yards, in fairness you did say that you'd killed Pinkfoots on moonflights with your .410 and steel, which is normally pass shooting ranges unless I am very much mistaken.
  14. @6.5x55SEThere really isn't any need to be so confrontational. If you're able to do what you say you can do, then I'd like to learn how you do it. I am, however, curious as to why you own anything other than a .410 then? Am I not correct in thinking that you own at least one 12 gauge, and even own at least one 10 gauge? Why would you own either if a .410 can perform equally well? I also find it difficult to believe that you're able to consistently pass shoot pinkfoot geese, with steel, from a .410 (and you must be able to do it consistently, because 12's and 10's can do it consistently). I've yet to see a >35 yard pattern from a .410 that hasn't long fallen apart (excepting when TSS is used, but that's outside the scope of this conversation), and pass shooting geese is almost certainly at ranges in excess of 35 yards. What loads are you using to achieve these results? Would you mind posting your best 40 yard pattern so that we can see how it performs? Thanks
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