bullet225ho

roughshooter, Those HW-15 4mm shot where packing a punch to say the least. if you where getting 1300fps out of the load they had just over 3.5inches of gel penetration at 85yrds. This would be the equivalent of 5.33mm lead shot at the same distance. Just for giggles. The #7 TSS I'm assuming 2.31mm If pushed at 1300fps will get you 2.52in of gel penetration at 50yds. Which is equivalent to 3.81mm lead or 5.33mm steel (American TT) All from KPY ballistics.

If you have some in 12ga available....yes by all means give it a go. With the shot taking up such a small volume of the wad you may be way down in pressure...but...you never know until you load and test. I have rolled up some 28ga paper wads of my own. used aluminum rod and wrapped several layers of super thin paper all glued together. then glued to nitro card. I've loaded 3/4oz of 5 steel in them with lil-gun powder. ran a ramp of test shots. Patterns were great, velocity is down and I'd say pressure is down. Wads came out like confetti. However, the peace's I did find show's no penetration through the paper wad. I'm looking to rework the wad as to not have to glue a bottom on. I've been working on a "press" if you want to call it that. It will fold the bottom of the paper wad flat similar to what is shown in your 12ga wads above. Also working on a Bio plastic gas seal. If I can get the paper wad done proper then I'd like a gas seal for good pressure vs the nitro card. I have some molding materials and using existing plastic wads to make a bio plastic starch wad. Experimenting is fun, but a pain the *** at the same time.

I'm working on some "Bio Wads" for 28ga myself. I've shot 5 steel through them with good results. TSS is normally much smaller than steel and should pose less threat to wad penetration I would think. I need to make up a new batch of wads and see what happens with TSS. My trap is down at the moment as I've shot through most of my floor material.

TSS is a gamechanger for small bore shooting and No-Tox shot. This is a 28ga pattern with 14gr 8.5TSS , 14gr 4 steel duplex (steel on top) patterned at 45yds. This is with an extended Cylinder choke, shot out of an Armsan Phenoma 28" barrell What's not often understood is the lethality of this shot. Especially when comparing to steel shot. In reality you can't compare it to steel shot as there is just too large of difference ballistically. example. 10Tss(18g/cm3) driven at 1300fps is the equivalent of #5 (english)chilled lead and BB (english) steel shot. So whatever the 12 bore fellows have shot with BB steel....10TSS is basically the same with a massive amount of pellets comparitavely. Also. T shot TSS at the same 1300fps is the equivalent of 0(SG)lead buckshot. Where as an ounce of T has 22 pellets per ounce. The 0(SG) has 9 pellets per ounce.

There is no published data to duplex loads that I know of. That's kind of the quirk with 28 and 410 heavier than lead reloading. Data is hard to come by. I have to take data points from published steel/lead shot and come up with my own and then send off for testing. I have a load that's been tested as safe for 28ga Fiocchi 2 3/4" hull, Cheddite 209 primer, 24gn Lil-Gun, TPS wad, 1/2oz TSS, 1/2oz 4 Steel, Fold crimp, 1305fps. 12,100psi Also a load for 410 Cheddite 3" hull, Cheddite 209 primer, 15gn H110 (or Win 296) TPS wad, 4/8 TSS, 1/8 4 steel, fold crimp, 1245fps, 12,900psi

Yes, 28gram of 1.80 TSS is 509 pellet count. in the 28ga I use 1/2oz (14gram) of 8.5 TSS (2.21mm) roughly 150 pellets duplexed with 1/2oz (14gram) of #4 steel. (3.30mm) roughly 95 pellets 245 total pellet count. The TSS alone in this load has 2.0inches of gel penetration out to 67.9 yds. (2.0" of gel penetration is what's expected for large geese) The steel in the load is there to help open the pattern up sooner at close range and also provide more killing pellets at close range. Once this load has reached 30yds or so the 4 steel is not really producing enough energy for a clean kill. I'm ok with that as at 30yds and beyond the TSS has opened up enough to fill my target area (30" circle) As a comparison if one were to load a steel shot with equivalent penetration ballistics you'd need to have a 70gram load of 4.83mm shot. I'm not sure if you can even do that with a 12ga.

Yes, 1.8mm size. It's great on large ducks to 50yds. 1.8mm TSS(18g/cm3) has the same penetration at 50 yds as 4.06mm steel shot if both are driven at 1300fps.

When you say TSS 15 do you mean Tungsten mix with a density of 15g/cm3? I have access and have loaded different heavier than lead shot. I'm used to TSS only referring to 18g/cm3 dense shot. So When I say TSS i'm talking 18g/cm3 The 15g/cm3, 13g/cm3 and then "Hevi-Shot" at 12g/cm3. We refer the 15 and 13 as Heavy weight or HW-13, HW-15 and Hevi-shot is call just that. in the 410 TSS and HW-15 are about he only two options that I would use. I don't really like using HW-15 as the pellet count is down with the shot sizes I have access to. I use the steel on top of the TSS to open the pattern up a bit quicker. If you shoot straight TSS it patterns SUPER tight....even at range. Now if your looking for 50-60yd kills then I say use a filler to raise the shot up and go straight TSS. The smaller TSS will open a bit faster than the larger stuff but still holds a tighter pattern than lead or steel. The steel slows down faster than the TSS and the TSS essentially pushes its way through the pattern. This gets the steel on the outside edges of the pattern very quickly for close in shots...Also it fills in that magic 30" circle at 40. If you don't use steel on top you will have all your TSS in a 20" circle at 40. That makes hitting birds tuff. Also, TSS likes an open choke in most of my guns. In 28ga I'm using an extended Cyl choke. in 410 im using imp cyl choke. a 410 loaded proper with TSS will rival any 12ga steel load available. A 28ga with TSS will rival 2 12ga steel loads shot at the same time.

I wasn't aware of the wad proposals...meaning no plastic wads. Just means more to develop I reckon. Yes, that is a side by side 410. It is a Yildiz Elegant A4. We have a sporting goods chain here in the US called "Academy Sports" that is the sole distributor of Yildiz guns. I have one in my town so I picked one up. I'm shooting mostly a duplex of TSS and Steel shot out of the 28 and 410. The load used in the duck hunt above was 4/8oz of #10 TSS and 1/8oz #4 steel shot. loaded in 3" hull with TPS wad. Load was moving around 1200fps. Here's a pattern from that load at 40yds. 30in circle

Hey folks, New to the forum from the USA. I notice there is bans and such going on with lead on your side of the pond and much going on over here also. I load for 28ga and 410 and have developed some no-tox loads. I'm just curious if anyone here loads steel or heavier than lead loads on the forum? I mainly load for waterfowl and some steel for dove/upland shooting. I also have some good loads in slugs for 28 and 410 for deer and pigs. But with the bans on lead it's probably a moot point. some 410 ducks

Try this again. Sorry about the pellet size discrepency. These measurements are 500ft above sea level and 21c temp, 16km cross wind Starting Velocity 1500fps Lead English 6 (2.59mm) @ 50yds. 603fps, 1.27ftlbs energy, 1.27 gel penetration, 5.71in drop, 12.65in wind drift Steel English 6 (2.59mm) @ 50yds. 447fps, .49ftlbs energy, .36 gel penetration, 8.13in drop, 12.65in wind drift TSS English 6 (2.59mm) @ 50yds. 792fps, 3.52ftlbs energy, 3.40 gel penetration, 4.09 drop, 8.02 wind drift Lead English 7 (2.31mm) @ 50yds. 555fps, .76ftlbs energy, .93 gel penetratinon, 6.30 drop, 14.17 in wind drift Steel English 7 (2.31mm) @ 50yds. 393fps, .27ftlbs energy, .14 gel penetration, 9.50 drop and 21.41" wind drift TSS Englis 7 (2.31mm) @50yds. 751fps, 2.25ftlbs energy, 2.78 gel penetration, 4.38 drop and 8.90 wind drift Lead English 8 (2.21mm) @50yds. 533fps, .62ftlbs energy, .80 gel penetration, 6.60 drop and 14.93in wind driftt Steel English 8 (2.21mm) @ 50yds 374fps, .21ftlbs energy, .07in gel penetration, 10.11 drop and 22.54in wind drift TSS English 8 (2.21mm) @ 50yds 734fps, 1.87ftlbs energy,. 2.55in gel penetration, 4.51in drop and 9.28in wind drift Lead English 9 (2.03mm) @ 50yds 495fps, .41 ftlbs energy, .59in gel penetration, 7.23 drop and 16.43in wind drift Steel English 9 (2.03mm) @ 50yds 338fps, . .14ftlbs energy, .59in gel penetration, 7.23 drop and 16.43in wind drift (yes...drop and drift same as lead) TSS English 9 (2.03mm) @ 50yds 702fps, 1.33ftlbs energy, 2.17in gel penetration, 4.76in drop and 10.02in wind drift. TSS 8.5 and 10's are what I use in 28 and 410.....duplexed with steel. SMASHES ducks and geese

Your looking for muzzle velocity at the muzzle to give you 1500fps at 50yds? The numbers I gave started out at 1500fps.

This data is per KPY and using USA sizes from what I know. #7 is .2.54mm (.100inch) #8 is 2.286 (.090inch) #9 is 2.032 (.080inch) I can change the input data to match whatever number you like?

Size 7 is 784fps @50yds 3.26ft lbs energy, 3.28" gel penetration and 4.14in drop Size 8 is 748fps @50yds 2.16ft lbs energy, 2.73" gel penetration and 4.40in drop Size 9 is 702fps @50yds 1.33ft lbs energy, 2.17" gel penetration and 4.76in drop First post on the forum. Hope this helps