Bernard

The Winchester Xpert steel carts were over £1 a trigger pull when I bought them. My steel loads are 20p each in once fired cases, albeit with components I bought a while ago, but still after the Winchesters!

I held out for a long time looking for a second hand MEC600Jr in 410 on the Facebook groups etc. ended up buying new from Clay and Game. If there’s one calibre that will pay for itself with enough shooting it’s 410. I bought a slab of 250 Winchester steel 2 years ago and it makes me throw up in my mouth to think how much I paid. There are significant savings in lead and steel loading. If you wish to load TSS then components (TPS Wads) are challenging but not impossible.

Completely agree with this. I have become less and less bothered about small steel shot in contact with barrels. I can load 13.5 grams of steel #6 in a once fired Fiocchi .410 3” if I use a clay buster wad. No issues with the barrels so far. I know a lad that uses stump wads for the exact same thing with #7s. Only thing I plan on changing is using zinc plated steel. At the moment I’m using cheap Chinese steel shot from Mandels. so many anecdotal tests out there here and abroad, with all different types of barrels and small steel shot. I’m not advocating BBBs or anything but there is a prevailing fear that you’ll cut furrows in your barrels / forcing cones and it’s just not happening. Im pretty sure that I’ll see some marring eventually but nothing that won’t polish out.

I also like 5s for wood pigeons but my current preference for a cartridge is the Jocker cardboard wad no 4 steel. They pattern so well that even the 27 gram loads are very capable. There was a lad on here or on Facebook recently selling discounted by the thousand. Just Cartridges usually have them as well.

It’s a 70mm 12ga load from Iain Charlton’s old data. I’m sorry. I read 28gram in 12 bore! Eyes readjusted! Nothing for you in 28 I’m afraid. sorry for getting any hopes up!

Post removed due to being unable to read!!

I wasn’t doing any sums. I was just punching numbers into KPY. Yours might be with an ISA standard atmosphere.

Sort of: At sea level and at zero degrees; a Steel BB fired at 1500fps MV will arrive at 42 yards going 764 fps and will achieve 2.38” of 20% Ballistic Gelatin penetration. Same BB fired at 1300fos gets 705 yards and gets 2.38” gel penetration. the BB that started out 200fps faster is only 59fps faster at 42 yards. With a 7lb gun and a 32gram payload the faster load comes with 8.3 ft lbs of additional recoil. 37 vs 28.7ftlb.

It’s the total payload minus the wad. So 32grams or whatever.

I agree. Unfortunately the CiP limits on shot size for standard steel vs HP are also poorly thought out. All available steel shot studies on Duck and Pheasant sized game conclude that #2 steel is the preferred shot size in 32gram and larger payloads. Choke appropriate to range of shots.

I suspect this is the fault of UK Cartridge manufacturers, CiP limitations and a failure to look at the utter encyclopedia of evidence produced in the states as they have added more and more lead shot restrictions over the last 40+ years. Shot size is important and multiple studies showed this. Large scale US FWS study with blind loaded cartridges, volunteer hunters and paid observers, using half lead and half steel (steel was appropriately loaded based on their studies) showed no statistical difference in the post shot reaction with shots to 60+ yards. I’ll dig out the link. He sumarises the various double blind studies, on Geese, Ducks, turkeys, pheasants, quail and dove here. Not opinion. Fact. These studies were very well designed and funded by the US government through their conservation act. Can’t think what it’s called now, MacArthur or something. https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/steel-shot-lethality-testing/

Watched it again. Brilliant! 2 3/4” 32 gram BB steel - Canadas at 20-50 yards - 9 birds with 11 shots. Next test: “Pass” shooting Canadas with the same 32gram BB load with 3/4 choke at 1360fps. 5 birds, 1 at 53 yds, 2 @ 60 and 2 @ 70. He’s not a bad shot.

I too have watched it before a good while ago. Thanks for reminding me of it. My kids are going to be disappointed with the TV tonight if they come and sit down next to me on the sofa..

Completely fine to sub in smaller shot. sorry for the slow response. I’m an infrequent visitor to PW.

Can’t argue with that price. 3.5mm is a hair smaller than Steel#3. They must be old enough to be labelled with English lead sizes.