Bernard

The Winchester Xpert steel carts were over £1 a trigger pull when I bought them. My steel loads are 20p each in once fired cases, albeit with components I bought a while ago, but still after the Winchesters!

I held out for a long time looking for a second hand MEC600Jr in 410 on the Facebook groups etc. ended up buying new from Clay and Game. If there’s one calibre that will pay for itself with enough shooting it’s 410. I bought a slab of 250 Winchester steel 2 years ago and it makes me throw up in my mouth to think how much I paid. There are significant savings in lead and steel loading. If you wish to load TSS then components (TPS Wads) are challenging but not impossible.

Completely agree with this. I have become less and less bothered about small steel shot in contact with barrels. I can load 13.5 grams of steel #6 in a once fired Fiocchi .410 3” if I use a clay buster wad. No issues with the barrels so far. I know a lad that uses stump wads for the exact same thing with #7s. Only thing I plan on changing is using zinc plated steel. At the moment I’m using cheap Chinese steel shot from Mandels. so many anecdotal tests out there here and abroad, with all different types of barrels and small steel shot. I’m not advocating BBBs or anything but there is a prevailing fear that you’ll cut furrows in your barrels / forcing cones and it’s just not happening. Im pretty sure that I’ll see some marring eventually but nothing that won’t polish out.

I also like 5s for wood pigeons but my current preference for a cartridge is the Jocker cardboard wad no 4 steel. They pattern so well that even the 27 gram loads are very capable. There was a lad on here or on Facebook recently selling discounted by the thousand. Just Cartridges usually have them as well.

It’s a 70mm 12ga load from Iain Charlton’s old data. I’m sorry. I read 28gram in 12 bore! Eyes readjusted! Nothing for you in 28 I’m afraid. sorry for getting any hopes up!

Post removed due to being unable to read!!

I wasn’t doing any sums. I was just punching numbers into KPY. Yours might be with an ISA standard atmosphere.

Sort of: At sea level and at zero degrees; a Steel BB fired at 1500fps MV will arrive at 42 yards going 764 fps and will achieve 2.38” of 20% Ballistic Gelatin penetration. Same BB fired at 1300fos gets 705 yards and gets 2.38” gel penetration. the BB that started out 200fps faster is only 59fps faster at 42 yards. With a 7lb gun and a 32gram payload the faster load comes with 8.3 ft lbs of additional recoil. 37 vs 28.7ftlb.

It’s the total payload minus the wad. So 32grams or whatever.

I agree. Unfortunately the CiP limits on shot size for standard steel vs HP are also poorly thought out. All available steel shot studies on Duck and Pheasant sized game conclude that #2 steel is the preferred shot size in 32gram and larger payloads. Choke appropriate to range of shots.

I suspect this is the fault of UK Cartridge manufacturers, CiP limitations and a failure to look at the utter encyclopedia of evidence produced in the states as they have added more and more lead shot restrictions over the last 40+ years. Shot size is important and multiple studies showed this. Large scale US FWS study with blind loaded cartridges, volunteer hunters and paid observers, using half lead and half steel (steel was appropriately loaded based on their studies) showed no statistical difference in the post shot reaction with shots to 60+ yards. I’ll dig out the link. He sumarises the various double blind studies, on Geese, Ducks, turkeys, pheasants, quail and dove here. Not opinion. Fact. These studies were very well designed and funded by the US government through their conservation act. Can’t think what it’s called now, MacArthur or something. https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/steel-shot-lethality-testing/

Watched it again. Brilliant! 2 3/4” 32 gram BB steel - Canadas at 20-50 yards - 9 birds with 11 shots. Next test: “Pass” shooting Canadas with the same 32gram BB load with 3/4 choke at 1360fps. 5 birds, 1 at 53 yds, 2 @ 60 and 2 @ 70. He’s not a bad shot.

I too have watched it before a good while ago. Thanks for reminding me of it. My kids are going to be disappointed with the TV tonight if they come and sit down next to me on the sofa..

Completely fine to sub in smaller shot. sorry for the slow response. I’m an infrequent visitor to PW.

Can’t argue with that price. 3.5mm is a hair smaller than Steel#3. They must be old enough to be labelled with English lead sizes.

They are all 6pt crimp finished. RTO will generally lower pressure a little so would be no issues.

Tested data. By me. No fillers. LilGun, H110 and LovexDo37.2. The Lovex is very slightly over pressure and needs to be dropped by a grain. The speed is so good that it would be an excellent load at 27-28grains. H110 could go up to 30grains. There’s still room in the case. Or increase the payload by upping the TSS ratio. When I tested I was using thinner Mylar. Not really sufficient for “big” steel though.

Then the wall of the wad. Wad pinholed with large steel but did not get through the Mylar. I have recovered the Mylar as well. I’ll look for those photos. It was fired with 12mil Mylar. It’s thick and it’s used by hobby craft types to make stencils with a cricut machine. A search for cricut Mylar will yield results on Amazon. You can see n the Mylar that where it was doubled up, the steel shot bridged and it creased the pressure causing run through of a single layer. I think there aren’t many who shoot steel 2s from a 28 bore like I do so the problem is unique. I have shared this data with many and they’re shooting 3s or 4s with no issues whatsoever. Needless to say the TSS is very well protected by the Mylar as seen in the phots

Recovered H41 wads after firing with TSS7.5 under copper coated steel no2. First showing the base

I also have tested data for various duplex loads with no fillers in that wad. With a few different powder options.

I’ve just seen this. I don’t have any notifications set up for threads and I’m hardly ever on PW. I get notifications for PM. Send me a message if you want to set something up. Also here is tested data for a 21gram TSS load in a Guilandi H41 with a Mylar Wrap. Has 3/8” of fillers in the base. It’s in a Winchester HS case. I’d up the charge to 32grains in a Ched or Fiocchi and call it good.

I’ve just reread my post. I typed it out in a mad rush earlier. I meant to say I have a some TPS28 and I can sort you out with enough for a box or two if needed. A more reliable source might be a lad called Mark Watson in the TSS UK Facebook group. He gets batches in. The other wad I was talking about is technically a lead wad. It needs care but I’ve been very successful with it and varying thickness Mylar wraps. The Guilandi H41 are in stock at clay and game: https://www.claygame.co.uk/28ga-gualandi-wads-pd67

I have a few TPS that I use to load TSS duplex. I can generally get hold of enough for my needs so if you’re after enough for a Box or 2 I maybe able to help you out. If you’re loading steel for ducks, or even TSS I’d recommend looking at the Guilandi H41. I have 6 or so loads that I tested with LilGun, H110, and Lovex Do37.2 using that wad, TSS, steel and Mylar when appropriate. The H41 is the wad used in the original HeviShot loads and all BPI data before the TPS 28 came around. I completely understand that you may want to go your own way etc but the offer is there. Bernard

Small bore reloading is an enormous save on factory ammo in any format. If you want non toxic shot in small bore then you can only do it with reloading. What gun have you bought? The 28 is THE caliber as far as I’m concerned. You can load 1oz lead, 7/8oz Bismuth, 1oz+ in tungsten based payloads. It’s the choice for me more often than not. sadly there’s no Lee LoadAll2 option other than some 3D printed kits for low volume stuff. I ended up getting a MEC600 but if I was starting again today I’d probably go OMV Smart box. Easier to change calibers (if you reload anything you’ll want to reload everything. It’s a gateway drug!). I’ve ended up with two MECs (410 as well) and I still covet and Smartbox.

What load are trying to put together? Salmonrod?