robmiller Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Have come across a damascus barrel 12g dating around 1890. Its a WR Pape of Newcastle upon Tyne. Have attached a couple of photographs. Does anyone have any knowledge? Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmiller Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 2 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Might be worth talking to Bagnall & Kirkwood:they seem very proud to trace their way back to W R Pape.(shown in "history" on their website) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 They are good stuff but old and often out of proof, you will need it checking by a gun smith. Prices vary from £50 up to£XXXXX. Bagnall probably a good start but they are biased. They are not birmingham or london quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmiller Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 cheers guys! Just dont trust the guy in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manton Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 W. R. Pape guns should be of a fairly high quality . Papes main claim to fame is that he is often described as the inventor of choke boring although W.W. Greener did most of the real development work afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 for a gun maker outside of london or birmingham he was very prolific , probably the best known independant gunmaker outside of those famous city's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 The business of W.R.Pape appears top have been founded in 1830 as a fishing tackle and game dealing business, gunmaking commenced some 27 years later and continued in the Pape family until Victor Pape retired from the gunmaking business in 1935 when former employees took over under the name of Bagnall and Kirkwood. I am the delighted owner of a W.R.Pape 12 bore shotgun circa 1920s, it does sport sleeved barrels , with 2 3/4 inch chambes. I have found this an excellent, light and highly desirable shotgun as could be expected from the factory of the firm who were known as, "the Purdey of the North". I have been told that Pape only ever built boxlocks as best guns, but no doubt a forum mamber will have a pair of Pape sidelocks. I have seen several other examples of Papes work including a superb No2 of a pair and a plain no nonsense box lock ejector. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigiaBrubaker Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Hello Mr. Miller. My name is Ligia, I have been following this forum for a while, whilst living in the UK and now, from the States. I am a restoration architect with a passion for vintage firearms, and my husband is the owner of Brubaker Arms Manufacturing ( https://www.brubakerarms.com ). We are working on restoring a W.R.Pape, the 8000 series, hammer gun, 28 gauge. It looks awfully similar to the one you have posted pictures of. We are restoring both the stock and the engraving. Is there any way possible we could please get some pictures of the trigger bow of your Pape? We are trying to find as many information as we can, in order to have an accurate pattern re-designed on that area, which has been worn out almost completely. We will send pictures after the restoration is complete! Kind regards, Ligia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1440 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 They are good stuff but old and often out of proof, you will need it checking by a gun smith. Prices vary from £50 up to£XXXXX. Bagnall probably a good start but they are biased. They are not birmingham or london quality. Known as the Purdy of the North, Although often disputed by fans of Greener attributed as inventor of shotgun choking. I believe they msde Best guns as well as retailing guns made in Birmingham under their name. Other interesting fact is that Mr Pape was a founder member of the kennel club and also made and sold fishing gear including Rods and Reels stoll sought afterby those in the know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltwad Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Ligia The gun in question is a standard grade Birmingham gun which would have been retailed by Pape .My research has to the 8000 series these date from late 1893 to 1900 which would include rifles pistols etc Has for images of Pape guns try Bothroyds book on English gunmakers Feltwad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin55 Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Hello Mr. Miller. My name is Ligia, I have been following this forum for a while, whilst living in the UK and now, from the States. I am a restoration architect with a passion for vintage firearms, and my husband is the owner of Brubaker Arms Manufacturing ( https://www.brubakerarms.com ). We are working on restoring a W.R.Pape, the 8000 series, hammer gun, 28 gauge. It looks awfully similar to the one you have posted pictures of. We are restoring both the stock and the engraving. Is there any way possible we could please get some pictures of the trigger bow of your Pape? We are trying to find as many information as we can, in order to have an accurate pattern re-designed on that area, which has been worn out almost completely. We will send pictures after the restoration is complete! Kind regards, Ligia There's a nice Pape here with a picture of the trigger guard http://www.francislovel.com/guns-for-sale/english-shotguns Search using the name Edited February 9, 2017 by kevin55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 The Pape records used to be owned by Rodney Ford but not sure whether this is still the case. He used to charge a nominal fee for details of a Pape gun taken from the record books. His address was -: Rodney Ford 51 South End Bassingham Royston Herts SG8 5NL Tel.No.01763 243736 Might be worth a try. Hope this helps. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigiaBrubaker Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Hello everyone, thank you very much for all the information you sent. It was really useful. If you are interested to see how our little project turned out, you can see a short presentation clip at this link: https://youtu.be/Z5i_v6FLO9g We are really happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Hello Ligia, One of Pape's trademarks was a hammer gun logo on the bottom of the trigger guard (or bow as you call it). I have had three Papes, two of which had this logo and I was led to believe this signified guns made by Pape as opposed to those made by the Birmingham trade and retailed by Pape. The guns bearing this logo were made between 1900 and 1910, so perhaps after this date he sourced guns from Birmingham. Another trademark was the wording "Winner of the London Gun Trials 1885,1886 etc." Engraved on the top rib. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holmes Posted August 3, 2020 Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 Doing some research into guns by W R Pape. Has anyone an original bill of sale for a Pape gun of any age? Ideally the document will show the actual amount paid, date of sale, model and serial number. JHolmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted August 4, 2020 Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 I have a list of Pape numbers . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 3 August 2020 at 21:29, John Holmes said: Doing some research into guns by W R Pape. Has anyone an original bill of sale for a Pape gun of any age? Ideally the document will show the actual amount paid, date of sale, model and serial number. JHolmes I have a copy of the records of my 16g Pape BLE (recorded as Best Quality) made in 1901 and made for and sold to a Mr. Doyle MP for Newcastle for 41 Guineas . This is the equivalent of about £5000 today. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holmes Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 04/08/2020 at 11:07, Gunman said: I have a list of Pape numbers . On 04/08/2020 at 11:07, Gunman said: I have a list of Pape numbers . Thanks for that, I have identified when both my guns were made, presumably from a similar list. 4 hours ago, Old Boggy said: I have a copy of the records of my 16g Pape BLE (recorded as Best Quality) made in 1901 and made for and sold to a Mr. Doyle MP for Newcastle for 41 Guineas . This is the equivalent of about £5000 today. OB Thanks, yes I also have the similar info. for my guns, what I’m after is original bill of sale for any Pape. If I were buying a new English gun I would keep all relevant paperwork in the case. Someone must have one even though it’s a long time ago. JH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 5, 2020 Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) On 02/10/2009 at 20:54, manton said: W. R. Pape guns should be of a fairly high quality . My this is an OLD, OLD thread! But the above is still correct. Pape could, and did, supply best guns and also could, and did, supply the more basic stuff. The man himself was, or his successor, I think, killed in a car accident in the 1920s? What will however kill stone dead the OP's gun is that it has a stock repair. As such the thing has a value but I doubt anyone would pay much more than £20 to £30 for it. That it may or may no be usable and the repair has stood the test of time is sadly now of no relevance. Stock repair done as seen in the picture = dead duck. Edited August 5, 2020 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamwansbeck Posted August 7, 2020 Report Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) I have a 1913 W R Pape boxlock,the action is i am very sure a Chas Osbourne of Birmingham ,sold in the white to Pape ,and barreled and stocked by Pape in Newcastle, tidy lightweight gun to be killed off by steel cartridges Edited August 7, 2020 by williamwansbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted August 8, 2020 Report Share Posted August 8, 2020 One of the Pape's that I owned was made by John Harper of Birmingham and was made with a Greener cross bolt. Whilst it had W.R.Pape on the action, the records state that this was returned to Harper and not sold by Pape. I wondered if this had anything to do with the 'differences' between Pape and Greener over the invention of choke boring. Another Pape I saw advertised, whilst advertised as a Pape (the records confirmed this) the action was inscribed 'R.W.Pape' not W.R.Pape. Another indication that Pape used the Birmingham trade to source some of his guns. This particular gun was an early hammer gun. OB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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