Lancs Lad Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Ok.......Im throwing a great big huge hairy cat into a nest of baby pigeons, grouse, ptarmigan and pheasants.... FTCH.......... Does it really matter......................... Ok........you have a dog thats great at working to a crowd, to a whole host of "distractions"............it can win a few scurries. Or you have a dog that can work in the field, is a bit head strong but works its bloody **** off. So, why do we, as the general buying public get swayed by FTCH. Personaly, jazzy would rather run round the enclosure, smelling all of the other dogs that have been there before, cocking his leg up, having a wazz and then running around a bit more before he stops to drop the kids off in the middle of the "trial"........or this is what he did at the midland............... So, gents.......what do you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I guess you are more likely to get a good worker from good working parents. You wouldnt buy a horse to enter the grand national if its parents gave rides on blackpool beach.It will run but wont be very good at it. Having said that there are good working dogs that are not from ftch parentage and a lot of dogs can be trained to work and will be as good as the trainer makes them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancs Lad Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I guess you are more likely to get a good worker from good working parents. You wouldnt buy a horse to enter the grand national if its parents gave rides on blackpool beach.It will run but wont be very good at it. Having said that there are good working dogs that are not from ftch parentage and a lot of dogs can be trained to work and will be as good as the trainer makes them. This is my point barts...............................working parents.............or trial parents.?? If you have a dog that works brilliant in the field....but craps all over the arena on the trial...............which one is the best..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Field trials hold no interest for me and i would take a dog from "known" good working parents over a pup from unknown parents with ftch in pedigree.The trouble is most pups are bought from people that you dont know so your only guidance is the ftch in pedigree,so that is what you have to go by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallarben Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 in my eyes yes i like well bred pups but if someone i saw out with a good dog that i real thought had style and class at its job the breeding would not put me off as long as i no both parents and both had a good bitch line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliespaniel Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 black bart has a point the only thing i would say is try and go on afew shoots to see whats out there my own dogs havent got any ftch for 5 generaitons they could not get any because i dont do trials but i know what there like because i owned there gparents and ggparents i originally bought the stain thro a over heard conversation ie ive never seen a bad dog hes bred yet ive since bought abitch of the same bloke i willl now look for a ftch dog for her that i like the look of only tomake the pedigree look ok this is probaly a bit off snobery on my behalf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdunc Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Ok........you have a dog thats great at working to a crowd, to a whole host of "distractions"............it can win a few scurries. Think you've maybe gotten a bit mixed up with what's involved in a trial, few triallers would ever run a good dog in a scurry. FTCH stands for field trial champion - a dog which has won two open stakes against the best dogs of it's breed in the country. I'm only familiar with spaniel trials but these are run as a rough shoot - two dogs running with guns either side. Or you have a dog that can work in the field, is a bit head strong but works its bloody **** off. Trial dogs are expected to do just this and remain under the control of the handler at all times - showing ultimate steadiness. Realistically trial dogs would normally be too hard going as rough shooting dogs as they move at such pace it's difficult to handle them and shoot over them too (for me anyway). A 'nice working dog' is usually that little bit slower that you've got more time to think about getting a shot off. Good breeding goes way beyond the number of FTCHs in a pedigree but if all the lines are dogs proven to produce talented pups then they are what I look for. The right lines give you a head start as the pup should have plenty of natural talent and an inherent trainablity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingmike Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 There's also possibly another arguement I raised in a recent thread re: Rytex spingers. It's been said that some trialling trainers have, through the years, bred dogs that re more suited to trialling than general working - smaller, faster etc. So if you bough a pup from this kind of stock, chances are it'd end up small and whippety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 My old girl who was born in 1995 has 23 ftch in her pedigree and 3 ftw and in a 5 generation pedigree the name rytex appears only 3 times.When she was working she was very fast and someone commented once that untill they studied the dog they thought she was just clattering through the undergrowth willy nilly but after watching her more closely she was just a very fast worker.As she got older she slowed down a bit but had a fantastic nose and was the only dog i have seen that could regularly scent snipe on wet marsh land,when the guns lab's had failed.Is it in the breeding or did i just hit lucky and get a good one ?There is no real way of knowing but i think you have more chance if the dog has proven parentage and the only way a stranger would know the parentage working qualities is through field trials unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker boy Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Field trials are the only way a dog can be "judged" doing its job.It has got to be on top of its game hunting,flushing,steadiness,retrieving,soft mouthed,silent etc etc.It may not matter to a shooting man if his dog gives out the odd bark whilst hunting, so when he says it is doing its job perfectly,in his eyes it is.In the field trials it would be sent home!.Diffferent people different standards.I usually find that people who have bought a dog without KC paper work or people that are not up to training to the standard required or people that have got a dog that is not good enough are usually the ones that slag of field trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliespaniel Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 i was on the grouse two weeks ago the moor not the whisky we were talking and comparing dogs one of thelads seemed to have a valid point his dog is half the size and wieght of mine he paid 1500 pounds for it trained from awell known northumberland breeder what he saiid was his dog looked faster than mine but if you timed them they would be the same his dog being smaller it was an illusion does this sound fesiable he came over as a good dog man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliespaniel Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 i was on the grouse two weeks ago the moor not the whisky we were talking and comparing dogs one of thelads seemed to have a valid point his dog is half the size and wieght of mine he paid 1500 pounds for it trained from awell known northumberland breeder what he saiid was his dog looked faster than mine but if you timed them they would be the same his dog being smaller it was an illusion does this sound fesiable he came over as a good dog man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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