Vince Green Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) The big disadvantage of a double rifle is that there is no guarantee that the two barrels will shoot to the same point of impact except (if you are lucky) at about 200yds. Even then its not guaranteed. They are made with the intention of being on at one distance but its all down to the skill of the man who puts the barrels togeather at the factory and some can be way out. The ammunition for the old rifles is still being made by Kynamco in Mildenhall Suffolk but the prices are very high. Anything from £10 to £100 per round. Henry Kranks sell the cases but dies are are problem now that NDFS has gone out of business, anyway most calibres are too big for a standard press. The other problem is where are you going to shoot it? Its well over the power allowed on most ranges, except Diggle, and they aren't going to give it to you for deer. There used to be a club for double rifle shooters at Bisley but they fell foul of the new MOD power restictrions a couple of years back. Can't even shoot .375 H&H. They and can now only shoot the older black powder calibres. Check out the auction prices on the Holts site. Most reasonable double rifles start around £5000 Edited October 12, 2009 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytie Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) The other problem is where are you going to shoot it? Its well over the power allowed on most ranges, except Diggle, and they aren't going to give it to you for deer. There used to be a club for double rifle shooters at Bisley but they fell foul of the new MOD power restictrions a couple of years back and can now only shoot the older black powder calibres. St Hubert's club? And surely it would be ideal for boar as they use loads of them on the continent, and easily deer legal with the right calibre. I think everyone ought to be able to have at least one double. ft Edited October 12, 2009 by flytie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The big disadvantage of a double rifle is that there is no guarantee that the two barrels will shoot to the same point of impact except (if you are lucky) at about 200yds. Even then its not guaranteed. They are made with the intention of being on at one distance but its all down to the skill of the man who puts the barrels togeather at the factory and some can be way out. As I said earlier, properly-regulated barrels are crucial. Cheap doubles can't be adjusted with ease. My Westley was regulated to 50 yards - anything further was useless, as all of the kills the gun made were well inside 75 yards, most within 30 yards and some as close as arm's length. And you are looking at way in excess of £100 per shot with a .700 NE with Kynamco/Kynoch ammunition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 St Hubert's club? And surely it would be ideal for boar as they use loads of them on the continent, and easily deer legal with the right calibre. I think everyone ought to be able to have at least one double. ft I think St Huberts is an MOD range. They certainly would be deer legal but most police forces won't even allow .375 for deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Several people on here have .375 H&H Mag for deer work in the UK, Alan. It can be loaded down to an almost lumbering pace, yet still hit like a locomotive. You really need something beginning with .4" for Africa, although I don't think Mungler is doing any buffalo cropping quite yet... I have also shot a 6mm Musgrave (culling baboon, excellent fun) - it's just like a turbocharged .243 in a rimmed case, making it easy to feed in double rifles. You can get some fairly punchy velocities from the Musgrave, as the .303 case is pretty accommodating. Good .303 brass is pretty hard to come by now. Hi In the H&H I use to use 300 grain bullets Growing in popularity was the Barnes Bullet , solid copper, never tried myself but a lot of people in SA liked them for big game. PMP of Pretoria used to make .303 cases and the necked 6mm Musgrave version, a bit rough but once fire formed and tumbled they did the job, at least the Bok I shot never complained. A doctor friend of mine use to use an old turn of the century "Mauser " his grand fathers. It had fired a few shot at us English he told me, lol 7mmx57 it was extremely accurate as of course they were, Id shoot my Musgrave he would use the Mauser for Springbok. Happy days Another friend used to shoot .500 Nitro express, now wonder Ive just had a shoulder op! We used to reload using SA produced powders made by Somchem, the stuff was so hot where they hadn't quite worked out the flame suppressant part in there chemistry, you could see the flame out of the muzzle in the African sun, it would wash your rifling away very quickl. Imported ammunition when you could get it was very expensive, Hertenberger was favourite or Samson. as I said happy days Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moses Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'd love a double rifle, I have shot a few on a range and they're a lot of fun. If I had the money and could justify a use for it, I'd have one in a heart beat. There's a couple of good deals to be had on guntrader. Beretta gold sable 9.3x74 OU Blaser SbS in 30R Blaser (bit bigger than a 30-06) A bit more expensive than the bettinsoli but, you get what you pay for. ATB Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I used a couple whilst in Africa the guy I rented a house from his Dad owned a Safari company. We mostyly used 6 and 7 mm round I can't remeber what but one was an old Mauser. He had a couple of Double rifles a Gibbs .470 (NE I think) and Brimingham made .577 NE both where great gun and perefectly regulated to 50 and 55 Yards. He told me he wouls carry nothing else when shooting dangerous game especially with cilents, except with leopards in close bush where his bearer had a 10 Bore 5 shot semi with lion shot (BBs I think). His son had a rifled s/s 12 Bore but I was not convinced. Managed to buy a .500 NE as I wanted a double rifle it was cheap (for a double) made in SA in the eary 1900s the barrels where poorly regulated I could hit most things to with the right barrel but had to aim off with the left quite alot. I could not bring it back unfortuneately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 HiIn the H&H I use to use 300 grain bullets Growing in popularity was the Barnes Bullet , solid copper, never tried myself but a lot of people in SA liked them for big game. I've used solid copper bullets for deer in 'normal' centrefire rifles, but the solids for the .470NE were 500gr of brass, and would travel the entire length of a large bull buffalo, smashing every bone in between. 5,000ft/lb per barrel with standard Kynoch ammunition. He told me he wouls carry nothing else when shooting dangerous game especially with cilents, except with leopards in close bush where his bearer had a 10 Bore 5 shot semi with lion shot (BBs I think). I would not want to face a lion with armed with 5 shots of BB! Peter Capstick, the legendary PH, used magnum loads of SG buckshot for following up wounded leopard (and wore a suit of armour, I kid you not), which are substantially less tough than lions. Lions tend not to lie in wait for you when they're wounded, and can often be lured out into the open for a shot with a rifle. Leopard on the other hand, are a lot more calculating and sadistic, and will just appear like a spotty, fanged Ninja when you're creeping around following a spoor. You really want a heavy soft-nose bullet for big cats - something that will drive through dense muscle and shred everything in its path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm glad you mentioned Peter Capstick. Everybody should read his books and I do mean everbody. Death in the long grass is particularly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Chaps, I am pleased that you have not convinced me off the path of a double. I just need to find one with an acceptable calibre. There appears to be a few in 30-06. At least mt FEO would have heard of that :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I'm glad you mentioned Peter Capstick. Everybody should read his books and I do mean everbody. Death in the long grass is particularly recommended. Capstick's books about Africa are the best shooting-related books I have ever read. Lots of extremely black humour, hair-raising stories and interesting technical detail. All the books by Jim Corbett, Ruark and other PHs are enjoyable, but they all seemed a little dry compared to Capstick's writings. Chaps, I am pleased that you have not convinced me off the path of a double. I just need to find one with an acceptable calibre. There appears to be a few in 30-06. At least my FEO would have heard of that :blink: I can't see any reason why reason why you'd be denied a .30-06 by the FEO. You'd certainly get a lot more use from it than a 9.3x74R or a .577 T-Rex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) I would not want to face a lion with armed with 5 shots of BB! Peter Capstick, the legendary PH, used magnum loads of SG buckshot for following up wounded leopard (and wore a suit of armour, I kid you not), which are substantially less tough than lions. Lions tend not to lie in wait for you when they're wounded, and can often be lured out into the open for a shot with a rifle. Leopard on the other hand, are a lot more calculating and sadistic, and will just appear like a spotty, fanged Ninja when you're creeping around following a spoor. Baldrick didn't say he hunted lion with lion shot thats what he had with the guy who carried the spare kit the 10 bore cartridge had more than 5 pellets in. I only every saw him shoot lion from a blind onto a carass normally with his .470NE if not one of his bolt action rifles. This guy was a PH and still takes out mostly US clients. He now works in Tanzinia after he was thrown out of Zim and emigrating to the US but must be in his late Sixties now, so can be bad at it. Edited October 13, 2009 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Baldrick didn't say he hunted lion with lion shot thats what he had with the guy who carried the spare kit the 10 bore cartridge had more than 5 pellets in. I only every saw him shoot lion from a blind onto a carass normally with his .470NE if not one of his bolt action rifles. This guy was a PH and still takes out mostly US clients. He now works in Tanzinia after he was thrown out of Zim and emigrating to the US but must be in his late Sixties now, so can be bad at it. Any PH who's survived into their sixties must have some excellent tales to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 :blink: Looks sweet mate .....go for it! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Great guy good hunting stories and war storys from the Rhodesian Bush Wars. Just a shame he went to the US not here to GB but they would not give him a passport. But back on topic go for the double great fun real different rifle wish I could afford 1 as I want another NOW!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ok then, could one of the boffins in the know confirm whether or not the 9.3x74R calibre can be fired at Bisley i.e. is it within their range tolerance? It looks like all the double rifles in .30-06 have flown off the shelves and it's only the whacky stuff left. Given that the Fabarm had a favourable write up in the shooting press last month one would have assumed they might have actually had a few in the Country to sell, silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Don't know but will the MOD ranges now be increasing the Energy Limit as the Infantry are now all issued with the .338 sinper rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ok then, could one of the boffins in the know confirm whether or not the 9.3x74R calibre can be fired at Bisley i.e. is it within their range tolerance? Iit would depend on what size rounds it lobs, 4,500 Joules is the max. Have you thought about a .308? Jack of all trades by all accounts :blink: Have a look at this: bullet_weight_vs_velocity.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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