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This ones a request to Dan (NTTF)

 

I am posting as it may relate to, or help others. I sure we all get training set backs this is my recent problem that I would appreciate some help with

 

My Lab bitch Astra (5 ½ months) has started to want to break from a sit stay almost as soon as I start to walk or back away. She responds to the original command one short pip of the whistle and sits by my left side, I then move in front of her and raise my right hand and say “stay” this has worked very well since day one, now for some reason as soon as I move away she starts to creep forward.

 

A week or so back I was able to turn and walk away from her up to 25 yards and she sat stock still, I would then walk back and praise or recall 3 pips on the whistle arms spread to welcome back and reward.

 

I thought perhaps she thought she had done wrong and that’s why she had to sit on her own? so I have been giving lots of praise when she sits they moving away backwards to maintain eye contact and re enforcing the stay command as I back away. About 2 out of 3 times she will break and move forward to me, What am I doing wrong, please advise?

 

pavman

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Pavman

 

What you are going through is exactly why I teach two seperate commands here. A stay command with a hand signal, and a wait command without. The reason that she is breaking is because you have been calling her from the stay, she is getting confused. She now thinks that stay means dont move sometimes, but go to you at others. She is trying to out guess you and cant figure out why you are not happy about her coming to you.

You should never call from a stay position. It means exactly what it says ...stay where you are.....I will come back to you. Wait means exactly what it says...wait here until I call you.

If you flip up to the obediance thread you will find excersices for both commands. Dont worry you are going to only take a short step back on the stay, and you get to teach a new trick to her , the wait.

On the stay, I would suggest you go back to just stepping infront of her on leash and working the command for a week or so,( see training notes), and then extending it back out.

 

Hope this makes sence, if you have any questions concerning this let me know.

Goodluck....NTTF

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Hi Dan

 

I feel a bit of a fool to be honest, poor dog. Yes it makes sense.

 

Stay, dont move till I come to you

 

Wait, do not move till I call you, I have been mixing stay and wait and she is guesing that I am going to call for her (sometimes) is it this time!

 

once again thanks :*) :*) :*)

 

pavman

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Dan,

 

had a really good session last night and this morning,

 

We only did walk to heel, sit, and sit stay on the long lead (15 feet) She responded really well and I only had to pop the lead on the first stay. She will sit for up to 60 seconds no problem.

 

Once I have her sit/stay going well on and off the lead when and how should I introduce WAIT bearing in mind my mistake and how do I make the transition from STAY to WAIT?

 

Also I just wanted to know about eye contact do I keep contact with all commands or will this cause the pup to feel anxious?

 

pavman

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Once I have her sit/stay going well on and off the lead when and how should I introduce WAIT bearing in mind my mistake and how do I make the transition from STAY to WAIT?

 

Also I just wanted to know about eye contact do I keep contact with all commands or will this cause the pup to feel anxious?

 

pavman

Just went through the pinned obediance thread....some twit forgot to add teaching the wait command to it Sorry :*) :*)

 

The wait is started and taught the same as the stay/freeze command, except you change the word to wait and there is no hand signal with it. Do the pivots in front, and then start to lengthen it out. Remember to vary the times that you have the pup wait. You can teach both exercises now, just try to break things up a bit so you are not working waits and then straight into stays.

 

As for eye contact, I try to avoid it, as I find it invites the dog to break its position.

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Hi Dan,

 

For one glorious training session it all went to plan! Last night we had walk to heel on & off the lead, sit/stay (6) from 5 yards and wait (2) from 5 yards all perfect. I am not convinced my WAIT method was correct but it worked. This is the first time I have felt like I was totally at one with the pup as a team. I can only imagine the joy that will come when we get to the stage of working together in the field, it’s a long way off and a mountain to climb but the reward will be worth every minuet spent on the early days. ???:D :(

 

Pic of the pup & truck

post-13-1122452762.jpg

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Dan, hi

 

Things are back on track with the STAY and WAIT commands and she only try’s to break now and again, which I am able to correct by taking her back and a stern word.

 

The walk to heel is also going very well along with SIT and DOWN (drop) all mixed up during our walks out, and on my land.

 

I would like to ask what would be the next progression in the pups training once we have nailed these first basic commands. I assume I need to add some distractions? And what sort….are we talking mrs pavman walking about in the yard or noise etc.

 

thanks

 

pavman

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Pavman

 

Glad that she is doing well. If she is performing well take her out to your local park while the kids are playing, or to a kids ball game, or cricket game. Anywhere that there are kids playing and work through all your obediance again. She is going to make mistakes with al the distractions around. Another good idea is to work her where there are other dogs around.

 

Good luckl

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Thanks Dan

 

Sounds like a brill plan, we have a local park quite close, kids, dog walkers & joggers. Should give all the distraction required. I will let you know how we get on.

 

pavman

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Out last night in the park for the first time OH MY... could not do a thing with her apart from sit on the lead! So many distractions and fun things going on around us.

 

I kept her on the lead and just walked round, she pulled all the time, and as soon as she was corrected just tried to get to other dogs, people and ball games.

 

I am of course not too surprised, BUT what is the best way to deal with this, and then move on? do you allow the pup to join in a meet and greet with other dogs and play until its a little older and has got it out her system, or do you correct from the outset and gain control, I dont want to knock the puppy out of the pup so my thought was to allow a period of play then take her to a quite area of the park and re start our training... and build up until we can work near distractions without her trying to break.

 

Thoughts please Dan,

 

thanks pavman

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You are on the right track.

Work her out on the side lines for the first while, you do not have to be right in the thick of things. Find an area that only has one or two distractions going on to start. Your first couple of sessions will probably be just getting her attention focused back onto you and re establishing leash control. Start this by heeling to a spot. You stand still, give her her release command.She is allowed to wander around in the 360 degree circle which encompasses you. If at anytime she gets to the end of the lead, give a pop, as soon as the lead is slack wether from you popping her back, or her coming closer on her own,,,,PRAISE. She must realise that the lead is to stay loose at all times, and she is not allowed to pull.

 

Continue to work your exercises with light distractions, adding more as she progresses. You can give her some social time as well. It might be best to pick a spot and let people with their dogs, and kids come to you for the first few sessions ...this way she wont get the idea that she can pull you around the park.

 

Remember this is all new and exciting for her...... :/

 

 

Hope this helps....NTTF

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NTTF

 

Will give it a try and let you know how things work out, I am going to mix things up so as she does not get over comfortable with one area and is only happy to work in that place. I will work our walks in the fields and the park and rotate things round and introduce the park with all its distractions about twice a week to start with I guess would be about right.

 

Thanks :/

 

pavman

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Hi NTTF

 

Ok thats now 2 trips to one park and 1 to another, with work at home in between. The work at home remains a nice learning curve. We now have Wait and Stay going well after my cock up, with blind stays (I hide in the shed or round a corner)

 

recall from wait is spot on, 3 pips and she comes right away.

 

The park is another deal! she pulls away all the time, I have to be really firm, lots of stops and sits, and this has put her walk to heal at home back, still ok on the lead but wonders when off the lead and ignors her name!

 

Maybee I am trying to move her too fast and should back off, but I dont want her to get used to the yard at home and only want to work there.

 

pavman

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Maybee I am trying to move her too fast and should back off, but I dont want her to get used to the yard at home and only want to work there.

 

pavman

Too Late..... :unsure:

 

Persevere through the park episodes as she needs too get out and learn what the world is about. Try for just leash control in the beginning. Stand in one spot, if she reaches the end of the lead give a pop till she will work 360 degrees around you with the lead loose. Next try some heeling, remember to go slow, it is a new and wonderful place. A couple of steps at heel than sit, next six steps then sit, etc. If you are having a major problem, drop back to working with the treat in front of her for a couple of sessions at the park....focuse her attention on the treat instead of her looking at everything else. REMEMBER dogs are not ruined by training too slow, or backing up training steps.Keep up the good work.....NTTF

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Thought I would mix things up a bit and we went to the beach last night, A nice remote spot popular with dog walkers.

 

We walked down to the surf with pup and terrier both on the lead, pup pulling terrier nicely at heel,

 

Mrs and Mrs holiday maker from up north? B) Paddling in the surf, We walk past, puppy eager to make new friends with the little girl,…. steady, heel we make our way 75 yards past to a nice clear spot on the beach.

 

Peep, sit, wait, both dogs respond. I take the lead’s off they both wait nicely I point down the beach utter the command “get back” and give the hand signal, terrier race’s off down beach, Puppy runs in opposite direction at full pelt covers 75 yards at break neck speed, ignores my recall and continues to jump straight up at the little girl, pushing her under the water, :lol: Mr holiday maker 6 ft 2 and 250 lbs becomes irate and shouts all manner of obscenities in my direction, and informs me as to how my facial features will alter once he gets hold of me and puppy is due a good kicking and why can’t I keep her under control, :< Puppy gets the message as 250 lbs of prime beef starts thundering in her direction and scurries back tail between legs :(

 

75 yards is too far for 250 lb Mr holiday maker, B) so I take advantage to increase the distance as puppy is almost with me and feel sure my actions will encourage her back, Puppy decides that Mr holiday maker made a mistake and really wants to play :lol: , so turns and runs back eager for more, Terrier decides to get some of the action and gives chase, recall. what recall neither dogs respond. :*)

 

Pavman decides to brave it, and acts as all politicians would do and offers a full apology (she’s only a puppy) from a safe distance and a suitable bribe of cash for ice cream, it seems to work. :lol:

 

As all three of us left the beach tails between our legs and mindful of the need to learn the STOP WHISTLE command next!

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Hi Dan,

 

Is the pup to young for stop whistle training? (6 months)

 

and if not how do I go about it, do I follow the pinned course, as that may be a problem as she is not really onto picking up to much at present, she is fine with the odd retrieve and ball play but gets bored very quickly and will wander off to sniff around (at around 20 mins) so I tend to still keep our training sessions close to the 15 min mark. Am and Pm with a little fun and play at the end, please advise.

 

pavman

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For park visit please see above (Beach Visit) :rolleyes::oops::lol:

 

I do pip the whistle during heel on the lead, and she is fine 100%,

 

she will sit most of the time off the lead as well ,if I blow the whistle, however if she is distracted and sniffing around and a few yards away she pays no attention what so ever, I dont want to overload the pup but she is coming on nice as long as I limit to the 15 mins each session. still all ok in my yard but not at the park so working on that 2/3 times a week and getting better.

 

pavman

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi NTTF

 

We have been continuing our park visits and she is starting to settle a little, not pull so much etc. Quite by chance I stumbled on something that has helped. During heel work in my yard she kept jumping up for the treat held in front of her, I had her off the short cord lead and noticed she looked at that whilst it hung in my left hand, She will now look at the lead and follow me at heel very nicely (without distractions from outside) if the lead is touching her flanks I deem her to be at heel, if she moves outside (about 18 inches) I recall her to heel, as she can feel the lead touching her I wonder if this has helped as a prompt?

 

On stopping she sits as I pip the whistle, she will also sit about 50% of the time if I pip her from a distance up to about 25 yards, so all in all good progress being made. I have also introduced her to the starting pistol with no problems at all, to be honest I have always made such a racket when feeding and playing with her the pistol is tame by comparison!

 

Looks like I may loose my internet connection at work so if my contributions start to slow its as I will only get a chance to log on at home now and again.

 

pavman

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