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As for the friends coming over I would not worry about impressing them as from what I understand they dont know **** about dogs :drinks::drinks::drinks::yahoo:

 

NTTF

 

:good::good::beer: I have worked a week to get kennels sorted for LB and Ben, I hope LB likes skinners field and trail working dog food, should keep him "Firm" :friends: you can stay in the house :beer:

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Right then, a bit of success to report

 

have not had chance to try the restraining work, BUT went out 6am today for a pre work session, walking at heel, spot a rabbit on the track on way to the woods, a young one about 25 yards out, managed to drop a dummy within 10 yards and bunny stayed put, Astra eying it up, sent her for the dummy she ran at the rabbit but stopped on the whistle just past the dummy FANTASTIC, rabbit bolted, gave her a hunt up whistle she picked the dummy and came in no bother,

 

There is good and bad I guess in that I dont understand if the running in last sat was due to lack of being out in the field due to her season, or if its going to happen from time to time???

 

should be out with Highlander this weekend so will see how we make out

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As for the friends coming over I would not worry about impressing them as from what I understand they dont know **** about dogs :no: :yp: :yp: :yp:

 

NTTF

 

:lol::lol::lol: I have worked a week to get kennels sorted for LB and Ben, I hope LB likes skinners field and trail working dog food, should keep him "Firm" :angry: you can stay in the house :lol:

 

 

I LOVE it you cheeky *** :lol:

 

 

 

 

LB :lol:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update;

 

The running in has sorted itself (for now?)

 

Sat we took part in a field trials training day, basically a field trial for novices but no dogs are put out and the judges give advice along the way and at the end. We all had 6 retrieves on Partridge (live game) 16 dogs ran with 10 guns it was all walk up through cover and stubble. We managed to retrieve 4 out of 6, one miss was because I could not push Astra out the cover and into the stubble field to go out and find a bird. She kept running up and down the margin of the cover (I could not see her as I was stood in maize 5 ft high) and she would not go back on voice command only. The other loss was a bird dropped in high thistle and grass, she went to the fall ok but the bird was a runner and she could not track it, a second dog came and made the retrieve some 30 yards from the fall (the best retrieve of the day) She was the youngest dog in the field and did as well or better than most so I was very happy. Couple of points to work on and very helpful comments from the judges.

 

Sun we took part in finals test day with one of the clubs I am in, 4 classes made from Puppy, Unsteady Novice, Steady Novice and Open we ran in the Steady Novice (14 dogs) and managed a creditable 3rd place. A nice little shield, a certificate and sack of dog food for our efforts. It may not seem a big deal but its our first formal recognition and I have to say I am chuffed to bits. A lot of work still to do, and our success to date is in no small way down to help from NTTF.

 

Thanks dude

 

pavman

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  • 2 months later...

NTTF we have developed another problem!

 

Its called "what whistle"

 

Out on a small rough shoot last weekend,. myself and a friend picking up but allowed to shoot any birds going back away from the guns.

 

We made 3 really nice retrieves with the dog marking very well, Then......

 

Hen Fezant is shot but not killed, a strong runner in Turnips, I sent Astra out to the fall around 30 yards but she lost the bird, she then went into hyper mode and despite whistle, voice and me chasing her she would not give up, it was head down **** up and gone with the wind with a finger up at yours truly. The guns waited until I finally regained control, red faced and out of breath :good:

 

In some ways its pleasing she tried to get on the trail and find the bird, as you know she is very bold but head strong with it.

 

I guess with a young dog this can happen, my question is how best to regain control and get the dog to respond to commands it would normally work to with no problem in this situation.

 

thanks pavman

 

ps did you like the phone msg!

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:good::lol::lol: dont forget Welsh Lesbian :lol:

 

 

She did settle down and only missed one other fall and mark, so i sent her out blind about 40 yards after my mates Springer had failed to find in sugar beet, she responded well to the whistle but i had to call her up once i was sure the bird was a strong runner and lost. I really don’t like to give up on birds I have seen down, but you have to move on at some point at this was one of them.

 

My mate has no control of his Springer, its a case of if he sees it he may well find it, he is a good flushing dog but my mate just cant stop shouting and blowing up, i think that did not help us, and may well of hyped Astra up.

 

However I need to understand how best to recover from a lack of response to my commands, how do i enforce if and when she turns hyper, it may seldom happen but its a real pain when it does

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My suggestion if this happens again would be to get her onto a lead as quickly and calmy as possible. I would then run her through some sits, recalls, and heeling for 10 to 15 minutes during which time she will calm down, before sending her back out.

 

I would be putting this down to her becoming over excited with the other dog running around being whistled, and shouted at, and her lack of age. I would not be expecting to see this too often in her.

 

NTTF

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thanks for the advice,

 

went out on my syndicate shoot sat and she tried running in again, basically with the dogs on the shoot none of them are very well trained, bird down is a race to see who gets it first. I was able to stop Astra, so at least she responded, she was also really good on all my commands trying to find a partridge runner over a fence and into some marsh, we did not find the bird (it was a long way off and we did not see the fall) but she did all asked of her,

 

If i continue to take her i am worried she will pick up these bad habits, but i feel lost without her. on my own or with another she is fine remember the walk up on our marsh with LB?

 

ho hum what to do for the best???

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thanks for the advice,

 

went out on my syndicate shoot sat and she tried running in again, basically with the dogs on the shoot none of them are very well trained, bird down is a race to see who gets it first. I was able to stop Astra, so at least she responded, she was also really good on all my commands trying to find a partridge runner over a fence and into some marsh, we did not find the bird (it was a long way off and we did not see the fall) but she did all asked of her,

 

If i continue to take her i am worried she will pick up these bad habits, but i feel lost without her. on my own or with another she is fine remember the walk up on our marsh with LB?

 

ho hum what to do for the best???

 

 

Indeed I do Pavman. As I said on the phone don't let the professional mix it with mongrels :shout:

 

 

 

LB

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  • 1 month later...
As long as you can keep control on her you will be fine to take her with :yes:

 

NTTF

 

 

NTTF

 

Out on the shoot with the lads again yesterday. I changes things a little this time, it was half walk half stand so I rested her on two of the 6 drives and it worked quite well and did not hot up, she only started to run in once and a quick shout sorted her out and back to heel at the peg. On one drive between our pegs we dropped 7 nice birds and she sat still with a few soft words of steady steady at the peg from me, She still seems not to have learned that spaniels do one job (and so are allowed to run about and flush) whilst she must remain at heel and ready to retrieve when required but only on my command . Still happy with my day and my dogs work, she found a bird down on a pond the mad spaniels had failed to pick, and I now hang back a bit until the mayhem calms, the lads now call me up for long birds and difficult retrieves which is really nice, in turn I don’t moan to much when the spaniels run in on my birds so everyone is happy

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  • 2 months later...

NTTF

 

Latest hurdle to overcome is when sending on a blind with a cross or head wind.

 

Last session I placed a dummy at around 100 yards near a tree with a stiff left to right wind, I just knew Astra would curl to the right and run with the wind, and she did, at 25 yards out she started to curl, I did not stop her as I wanted to see what she would do. She went back ok until she reached a ditch at the 100 yard mark but was by then at least 50 yards to the right of the mark. I gave her 3 left/stops until she came up to the sent and made the retrieve.

 

So just how do I get her to carry a straight line on a cross wind or head wind? or do i make an angle run to take account of the wind? I wanted her to stay down wind because at least she can then sent.

 

As always your assistance is appreciated.

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Pavman

 

When it is a blind retrieve in a cross wind I always try to send the dog on an angle that will intercept the scent and then let the dog follow the scent to the dummy.

Topography plays a very important roll upon the angle and where you will send the dog. If the wind is blowing up a hill there will be a dead zone at the top of the hill as the scent will be above the crest. If the wind is blowing down hill there is a dead zone out from the base of the hill as he scent is being bounced. The best way to understand this is to get a couple of smoke bombs and set them out. The smoke does a fair simulation of a scent trail and will allow you to see what the dog can smell in differant situations

 

NTTF.

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NTTF

 

I am trying to work out if its possible to send her out upwind on the expectation she will drift back with the wind and so end up the right side (down wind) by the time she gets to the retrieve, dependant on distance???

 

In this case she drifted 50 yards right (with the wind) when I lined her out parallel for a retrieve at 100 yards i.e she drifted approx 1 yard right every 2 yards covered whilst going to the mark. However she did not start to drift until she was out 30 yards or so then curled right and kept going with the wind. Is it possible to train a straight line in any condition (point and go) or will the dog always drift with a wind, In a slight or no wind situation she will head fairly straight.

 

I have some smoke bombs and will try next time out

 

Cheers

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Pavman

 

TO answer your question as to weather it is possible to teach a dog to go straight every time......yes it is .....that is pretty much what the American Field trial is based on. Do I like it? No. There is a differance in having a robot that runs a straight line everytime whether a handler makes a mistake or not, and a dog that trusts its handler but uses its own head to figure things out aswell, working as a team.

 

If you send her out with the wind........as this can happen in hunting your best is to be ready to stop her when she is no more than 10 meters past the fall zone and if she has not hit a scent cone handle her over to that zone.

 

She may have been drifting right as she was trying to get the wind around to where she could use it to her advantage. To help over come this I would suggest that you run the same set up in training using a shorter distance with sight retrieves working upto blind retrieves. Slowly increase the distance, as she understands that you are looking for straighter lines and she trusts your lines more in this situation.

 

 

NTTF

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Pavman

 

TO answer your question as to weather it is possible to teach a dog to go straight every time......yes it is .....that is pretty much what the American Field trial is based on. Do I like it? No. There is a differance in having a robot that runs a straight line everytime whether a handler makes a mistake or not, and a dog that trusts its handler but uses its own head to figure things out aswell, working as a team.

 

NTTF

 

This makes sense bud, her marking on seen retrieves is excellant, I dont think i need to worry about them to much, its the handling on a long blind i am working on. The reason being in a test you get 3 corrections and after that you are getting docked points so its important to handle the dog as little as possible

 

thanks pavman

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  • 3 months later...

Pavman

 

TO answer your question as to weather it is possible to teach a dog to go straight every time......yes it is .....that is pretty much what the American Field trial is based on. Do I like it? No. There is a differance in having a robot that runs a straight line everytime whether a handler makes a mistake or not, and a dog that trusts its handler but uses its own head to figure things out aswell, working as a team.

 

NTTF

 

This makes sense bud, her marking on seen retrieves is excellant, I dont think i need to worry about them to much, its the handling on a long blind i am working on. The reason being in a test you get 3 corrections and after that you are getting docked points so its important to handle the dog as little as possible

 

thanks pavman

 

 

NTTF

We had another novice test Sunday and 28 dogs ran, inc the IGL champ from 2002 who was placed 3rd with his young dog. Despite getting all 6 retrieves we did not make the cut for places as we did not have enough points, reason being to much handling on blinds (again) and problems with the run out. All is well for around 30 yards then she will curl off one way or another. I try to work out why, but she may go into or with the wind! She only curls with the wind if its blowing hard to avoid running into it.

 

The top placed dogs all performed well on the run out (straight lined) which put them close enough to wind the game and so needed very little handling. Astra has plenty of sense when she winds game and hunts up well, but unless I can get her to hold a better line I am always going to have to over handle her, what do I need to do?

 

Thanks pavman

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Pavman,

 

Further to our phone conversation, I am going to post what we disscussed on here incase it comes helpful to anyone else.

 

Astra has a lengthening out problem. To overcome this I suggest that you start by placing a White traffic cone out at 30 yards and place a dummy beside it. If she will pick one dummy out of a pile this will eliminate the need to keep walking out, and you can place as many as you like. On your end I suggest you place a stake in the ground at the point from which you send her. I would also place a stake 15 yards behind you. Once you send her back up to the second stake so she is traveling an extra 15 yards on the return. Continue to do this for roughly a week, and then move the cone out to 50 yards. Again back up to the second stake while she is headed out. Increase the cone distance each week until you have the distance that you are comfortable with. At the same time continue to back up...you may wish to increase this distance aswell.

 

The cone will give her a visual straight line to run with a reward once she gets there. Her confidence and understanding is increased as the distance is increased.

 

Once she is at the distance you wish her to run, place a dummy part way between you and the cone....I like to use a small piece of flagging tape on a stick or grass stem to mark the area........and send her she should by rights pick the dummy on her out line. If she overruns....you will be able to tell as the flagging marks the spot.....stop her and bring her back to the dummy. You can now send her to any distance on that straight line. Quiet often I will lay a series of dummies 20 feet apart on the line at this point so you can repeat the exercise with out continually walking out.

 

You will now be at the point that you can remove the cone and the stakes and she should run a straight line out to any distance. Be sure to move your training around and set up in a differant area each session.

 

 

Aswell remember the runs from the trial as there is a set number of patterns that are used.....double dip behind a rise, straight line through water, through water over point through water to mark on land.....the top dogs that make no mistakes on the retrieves have the advantage of the trainers having technical ponds and fields and have ran these patterns hundreds of times before even seeing a trial. Try to simulate what you have ran. Put young Pav out in the field as a gunner when running thses patterns in training........It will keep the little retrubate out of trouble. :D and be good for him to do some honest work :whistling:

 

 

NTTF

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Put young Pav out in the field as a gunner when running thses patterns in training........It will keep the little retrubate out of trouble. :good: and be good for him to do some honest work :good:

 

 

NTTF

 

I would love to help out I really would, but its king crab season and the lobsters won't give me a break so its going to be hard to fit it all in.

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